VTOL-Exhaust angle

[Lukas]

hi,
there is possibility to define “VTOL-Exhaust decrease/increase angle” key in BMS 4.32
I can not find these functions in default profile to define/redefine.

Please help.
thanks in advance

[Frederf]

I believe they are AFDecExhaust and AFIncExhaust.

You would add them to your key file in a line such as:
AFDecExhaust -1 0 0XFFFFFFFF 0 0 0 1 “Exhaust Angle Dec”

[TobiasA]

I tried those on the AV-8B some time ago and didn’t have that much luck with it. Is it modelled at all?

[Mav-jp]

Feature not activated in 4.32 ….was not ready at that time

[TobiasA]

Ah… Anyway, VTOL’s and helicopters are made for those that don’t know where to go You can just stop and think about where to point your nose next. Fighter pilots always go forward. All the time
I’m looking forward to 4.33 then. Although I’d really like to fly a helicopter in BMS some day. That would be quite some fun. Maybe in version 4.156 or so…

Keep up the great work

[Dee-Jay]

@TobiasA:

I’d really like to fly a helicopter in BMS some day. That would be quite some fun. Maybe in version!..

With what terrain? This sim and its terrain is not made on that purpose. There are nowhere to hide, terrain elevation is just too simple … IMO, helicopters in BMS would just be boring as hell.

[TobiasA]

@Dee-Jay:

With what terrain? This sim and its terrain is not made on that purpose. There are nowhere to hide, terrain elevation is just too simple … IMO, helicopters in BMS would just be boring as hell.

Battle for Balkans with some more trees and houses (which we would have in version 4.156 ). Sure, the ground detail does not really suit helo actions (but who cares when fighting it out on angels 32?). But at the moment, helicopters don’t act like helicopters flying 500’ AGL which makes them easy prey most of the time. It’s more the thrill of flying a helo into the action of a dynamic campaign where your success does have an impact to other troops or even to fighter missions.
Flying some SAR missions would be fun nevertheless. Same with some ASW action.
I was just dreaming. BMS is a fighter sim and is great as such. Man, i didn’t even start with the mirage yet. I really admire those mirage guys shown here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E2U500UsAEw
Unfortunately, I speak very little to no french. I’d have to learn it again (had it in school, but that’s 10 years of not making any use of it. What a pity).
Before thinking about helicopters, it’s the best to use the full potential of BMS which I didn’t use yet. Can’t even fly the mirage…

Back on topic, I think a good AV-8B would be something very interesting. Same with the V-22 Osprey that would benefit from that feature (and this one would be great for some TE’s with special ops since the osprey got a good range and speed compared to a helicopter).
Anyway, to be honest: There are more important things than that.

Like learning french and joining those mirage guys :woohoo:

[Mav-jp]

Av8b will be extremly interesting to fly believe me

[TobiasA]

@Mav-jp:

Av8b will be extremly interesting to fly believe me

I have no other choice than believing in what you say

I had some time in AV-8B Harrier Assault. From the flying point of view, it was a lot of fun

[Lukas]

@TobiasA:

I had some time in AV-8B Harrier Assault.

Me too
it was fun to kill Vipers, Tigers and Skyhawks using gun with fixed sights. Vectored thrust was nicely simulated in this old sim…it was quite a challenge to land safely.
Amphibious landing of the whole fleet was very good too - LCAC + other landing platforms, Cobras and MH-53s(?) …busy coastline…very cool

Construction kit was derivated from this. Still usefull software due to 640*480 resolution…

[toonces]

At the risk of completely disrailing this thread, I also have contemplated driving a helo around the Falcon world. I don’t know how fun it would be given the terrain limitations…but the idea is still there bugging me.

I’ve also thought how cool it would be to slap a Combined Arms-type ability into Falcon…yeah I know crazy talk but still…

[TobiasA]

Well, when VTOL is ready, you basically have something like a helo. At least somehow, after altering sounds and 3D model.

[Lukas]

yes…dont know why it was not added already…perhaps AI can not handle VTOL properly…but i had fun using superflapped AN-2 FM for flyable heli, it can almost hover and AI had no problems to handle it…but of course VTOL can fly backward etc, its more profi with no doubt

[TobiasA]

The AN-2 won’t spin in a stall as far as I know. The airplane is a very stable design and will just sink towards the ground. I was told that you can even land the plane that way.

The AI will most probably have its trouble with VTOL since it was never told to be using it.

[Mav-jp]

@Lukas:

yes…dont know why it was not added already…perhaps AI can not handle VTOL properly…but i had fun using superflapped AN-2 FM for flyable heli, it can almost hover and AI had no problems to handle it…but of course VTOL can fly backward etc, its more profi with no doubt

It was not added in 4.32 because the FLCS to handle the VTOL was not ready at all

Without proper FLCS , hovering with a vtol was quite impossible

And nope a heli has nothing in common with a vtol aircraft

[TobiasA]

@Mav-jp:

And nope a heli has nothing in common with a vtol aircraft

Just because the helo is only VTOL? You just have to rotate the whole helo to move the thrust to the forward direction:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l_nB8jvYIDc
See? They got a lot in common It’s just that the VTOL only moves the thrust vector and the helo needs to move the whole thing in order to create a horizontal thrust vector :rolleyes: (pls don’t take me serious here :rolleyes: )

As it is modelled in the base falcon, there is not much difference between helo and VTOL aircraft. The other way around: Creating a fast helicopter with airplane model and sounds would probably give a not-so-bad VTOL in the terms of falcon.

But since we are talking about simulating stuff, it is a whole different thing. In real life, there are many different things:

• Fixed wing VTOL won’t ever experience a retreating blade stall.
• Fixed wing VTOL won’t ever experience similar effects caused by an advancing and retreating blade (dyssymmetry of lift)
• Fixed wing VTOL are not made for a long hover time and won’t be good in flying sideways or even backwards
• Fixed wing VTOL lack the rotor torque
• A helicopter has its lift on top of the plane with the gravity center below it. On a VTOL aircraft, lift vector in hovering and center of gravity are closer together which makes the basic design more unstable
• Fixed wing VTOL are able to go faster, but you have to be very careful on the transition from vertical to horizontal flight to let airspeed (=> lift) build up before the vertical thrust vector is gone. Otherwise, you will spin, crash and burn :roll:

You are right: It might look easy, but it isn’t.

[BANITA]

Making the helicopter cockpit is simple.
But flight model, and adding all code to game is imo few years of work.
We can dream, but it unreal

[Mav-jp]

@TobiasA:

Just because the helo is only VTOL? You just have to rotate the whole helo to move the thrust to the forward direction:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l_nB8jvYIDc
See? They got a lot in common It’s just that the VTOL only moves the thrust vector and the helo needs to move the whole thing in order to create a horizontal thrust vector :rolleyes: (pls don’t take me serious here :rolleyes: )

As it is modelled in the base falcon, there is not much difference between helo and VTOL aircraft. The other way around: Creating a fast helicopter with airplane model and sounds would probably give a not-so-bad VTOL in the terms of falcon.

But since we are talking about simulating stuff, it is a whole different thing. In real life, there are many different things:

• Fixed wing VTOL won’t ever experience a retreating blade stall.
• Fixed wing VTOL won’t ever experience similar effects caused by an advancing and retreating blade (dyssymmetry of lift)
• Fixed wing VTOL are not made for a long hover time and won’t be good in flying sideways or even backwards
• Fixed wing VTOL lack the rotor torque
• A helicopter has its lift on top of the plane with the gravity center below it. On a VTOL aircraft, lift vector in hovering and center of gravity are closer together which makes the basic design more unstable
• Fixed wing VTOL are able to go faster, but you have to be very careful on the transition from vertical to horizontal flight to let airspeed (=> lift) build up before the vertical thrust vector is gone. Otherwise, you will spin, crash and burn :roll:

You are right: It might look easy, but it isn’t.

Vtol is not modelled in falcon 4

It is partially modeled in bms 4.32 with AFM but not activated due to lack of FLCS

It will be fully active in 4.33

helos modeling have nothing in common with vtol modeling

Vtol rotations are ensured. by thrust vectoring while.helo.physics are 100% different.

The physics engine of BMS could handle a.helo with an.aditionnitional module to handle.gyroscopic effects . In adition i would need to write a complete new aero code specifically adapted for.modeling blades aerodynamics.

[Arty]

SU-35 if I recall is what we r talking here that will be the mothef of all fears? He he he… Someone is working on a pit for it?
We will have artistic ballet performances like the ones we see in the airshows?

Harriers will be fun but this… HoHoHo Marry Christmas…

http://vimeo.com/43316802

[Frederf]

@Mav-jp:

Vtol is not modelled in falcon 4

It is partially modeled in bms 4.32 with AFM but not activated due to lack of FLCS

It will be fully active in 4.33

helos modeling have nothing in common with vtol modeling

Vtol rotations are ensured. by thrust vectoring while.helo.physics are 100% different.

The physics engine of BMS could handle a.helo with an.aditionnitional module to handle.gyroscopic effects . In adition i would need to write a complete new aero code specifically adapted for.modeling blades aerodynamics.

Is it theoretically possible for FLCS program different from F-16 FLCS program for BMS “other” aircraft?