Aireal Refueling
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Hi guys, I been flying this sim since 4.32 version. I understand the need for practice,practice, practice!!! Not a problem I do that but as of right now Air Refueling is a enigma. In 4.32/4.33 I worked at it and got to the point where I could refuel in the turn, and the practice paid off. When 4.33 U1 came out I was one of the first down loaders (and yes seeded for others). Hit the manuals and Training guide and I thought very well done hats off to DEV’s. I read that the tractor beam was removed//AR bubble for Air Refueling and the need (apparently) required to be in the correct position for pre-contact.
BMS Manual 5.2 Pre-contact “Before taking fuel you will need to establish a stable pre-contact position. This position needs to be held for a few seconds to be recognized by the boomer. You’ll need to be 50 feet below at 30° down from the tanker”.
“The best method to get that position correctly is to use the gun cross and the boom. The position of the boom tip gives you the location of the pre-contact position. Just follow the lower part of the boom by aligning the gun cross with it. The HUD side mounts are also a good cue. Align them with the engines of the refueller (inboard engines for the KC-135).”
Gentlemen I have done it over and over and the clear to refuel never comes. The gun cross is perfectly alien with the boom and the tanker pods line up and no call for refuel by tanker. I monitored my speed, 299-302 CAS I monitored my Altitude to make sure within 50 feet of tanker boom, relaxed loose fingers, and no call. But if I start flailing around the cleared call comes. The turbulence in the Training AAR TR433-05 AAR is not bad and lateral movement is not bad at all but it seems there is a issue with the Pre- contact position.
I have tried different gun cross positions on the boom walking the gun cross up to at least the 50 feet position on the boom, I’ve adjusted my FOV on the tanker, and the boom (zoom in, and out full cockpit view), a 1000 feet below the tanker on approach, checked my airspeed and assured it was between 298 -302 CAS in pre-contact, if I do get a contact it’s for less than 20 seconds and that is with throttle cycling (small inputs). I’m lost as to what to try to get a successful contact. -
Nothing has changed as far as tractor beam is concerned (there has never been any tractor beam prior to contact )
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Are you asking about contact, or precontact?
To get to precontact, fly the gun cross to the boom, and hang onto it. Stabilise, wait to get cleared to contact.
To get to contact, throttle up slightly and drive directly forwards from precontact. The boomer will steer the boom around the canopy and into the receptacle. Follow the lights, stabilise when they go out. They will go out for a couple seconds when you are roughly in the right spot, so hold up there and wait for the boomer to earn his paycheck.
If getting to the spot where the lights go out is difficult, you may want to drill some formation flying for a bit first.
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Thanks Wolf I’ll try it and see if it works. It just seems from 4.32/4.33 AR has changed, from pre-contact to hookup seem way harder. I’ve tried throttle curve adjustments on the warthog but no change. Do you think it could be the graphic drivers causing a problem?
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Thanks Wolf I’ll try it and see if it works. It just seems from 4.32/4.33 AR has changed, from pre-contact to hookup seem way harder. I’ve tried throttle curve adjustments on the warthog but no change. Do you think it could be the graphic drivers causing a problem?
If you have unusually low frame rates I imagine it could make things more difficult.
AAR has changed from 4.32 to 4.33. Finding the right contact position is a little harder. Staying in the ‘box’ is harder …… more small control inputs to hold position … that is where the feeling of being ‘locked in’ in 4.32 happened.
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Agave_Blue I see, is there a box of acceptance for pre- contact around the boom and if so how large of range is the lateral and vertical pocket?
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Agave_Blue I see, is there a box of acceptance for pre- contact around the boom and if so how large of range is the lateral and vertical pocket?
Put your nose in the boom and stabilize speed you will get contact clearance
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Agave_Blue I see, is there a box of acceptance for pre- contact around the boom and if so how large of range is the lateral and vertical pocket?
I meant in contact.
Pre-contact …. put your gun cross on the tip of the boom. Fly forward slowly. Stabilize with the boom just forward of your windscreen.
I have not noticed any difference in pre-contact position in 4.32 v 4.33.
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Just because I didn’t see you mention it, fuel door must be open or you will never be cleared to contact position.
I’ve forgotten this step once or twice myself and seen others do the same. The question is always the same, “what’s the matter with that idiot boomer”. LOL
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Roger that
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AAR in the Viper is a snap given time, but I can’t get a grip on it in the Hornet.
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mower in the hornet, the trick is to not look at the boom. focus on the lights.
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mower in the hornet, the trick is to not look at the boom. focus on the lights.
Lol i do the exact opposite, try putting the seat alignment cross (top right corner of the HUD) on the boom (use this like you would the gun cross on the viper Mower. This is how we teach the guys just getting into the hornet amd its yet to fail me yet, once connected i fly the colors on the boom rather then craning my head around the canopy rail to see the tanker lights.
Sent from my SM-G920W8 using Tapatalk
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I set my view up so i can see the lights.
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Real nice. But with a RL KC-10 I think the Hornet pilot ignores the lights and just flies form on the basket with the probe - as seen in this pic of a hose/drogue equipped KC-10, the Operator has no ability to steer the hose - it just free flies.
http://media.defenceindustrydaily.com/images/AIR_KC-10_Drogues_F-18C_Nimitz_lg.jpg
In this pic things seem particularly stretched out, but bottom line is that it’s up to the Hornet driver not to hit the basket too hard and set up a whip wave in the hose…which can rip the probe right out of the nose of the jet - seen the aftermath of that, in RL. Do that and you’re really…
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I too am battling refueling. But i am getting closer will nail it one day. Wondering if getting track ir will help
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It is indeed tough
I can’t hold speed or altitude. The tanker keeps going up and down and I end up crashing into it -
TrackIR definitely helps.
I don’t know exactly how to put it in words but AAR is flying formation with the tanker. And flying formation is helped immeasurably by looking at the tanker, really looking at it as a whole. I used to just see the tanker or parts of the tanker. Yup, it’s there and I’m under it, but that isn’t good enough. When you really, truly watch the tanker you can sense very small relative motion. When something is perfectly still it has a certain look to it. If a giant granite boulder or house slowly moved a few centimeters per second it would be perceptible. Buildings and big rocks aren’t supposed to move.
That’s the kind of motion perception that helps a lot in AAR, seeing movements on the scale of cm per second. The HUD and airspeed gauge are nowhere near as precise as your monkey brain really watching the other airplane. Look for tiny motions near the tanker and watch for when you genuinely become still as a rock. It looks a certain way. Don’t be satisfied with kinda sorta slowly drifting around back there. Look for those tiny motions and frozen stops and always work to correct them (calmly smoothly).
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I’ve found it to be the opposite. I use TrackIR but I disable it and use the fixed “3” view once I’m in the vicinity. When the “view” does not move, it’s easier to notice if the tanker is drifting and I can adjust for it. With TrackIR on, that “drift” may just be due to my head movement and I don’t really need to move the jet. With TrackIR off, any drift is between the two aircraft and needs to be addressed.
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I’ve found it to be the opposite. I use TrackIR but I disable it and use the fixed “3” view once I’m in the vicinity. When the “view” does not move, it’s easier to notice if the tanker is drifting and I can adjust for it. With TrackIR on, that “drift” may just be due to my head movement and I don’t really need to move the jet. With TrackIR off, any drift is between the two aircraft and needs to be addressed.
I have found a similar thing with formation in general, although Ive also found that its much more pronounced with 6DOF than 3DOF trackers (EDTracker is much more stable a platform as a result of its limited freedom).
I am curious how significant (if at all) this effect is with VR?
