Naval Operations

[nmasso]

Hi,

Maybe this topic was already discussed in another post, I apologize if so, but I wanted to start this thread because I see that there are many fans of Falcon BMS who are actively interested in Naval Operations from carriers.
I’ll going to say this with my high respect: Falcon BMS is a high quality product and I think that should consider seriously the possibility of improving the naval capabilities of this simulator. Improving the naval aircrafts and, especially, the carriers in its textures and functions, making this ships more realistic, more attractive and more functional, and improving the possibility of create TEs with these CVs in the different operational theaters. Currently it’s possible but it’s more complicated than the ground based operations and is not possible in all the theaters.
I’m not asking these changes right now but I think it should be a serious strategic policy to consider for the future of Falcon BMS, and not just a matter of great but sporadic mods.
I know that a dear friend are working hard on a new F-18 cockpit. It can be seen in several splendid pictures in the forum and will be a wonderful new for the naval pilots when it is finished -actually I’m waiting anxiously- but I also think that should think to do the same work in other naval aircrafts such as the F-14, for example. sorry if it so again.
I apologize also for the way that I require these changes, because I know absolutely nothing about how to program or design or manage aircraft textures or theaters. It’s extremely annoying that someone who doesn’t know or can’t do the job, say what should do, especially if the product is free and nobody earns any cent for the job, only the pleasure of make it for the community. But also I know that I’m expressing the feelings of many virtual naval pilots who love this simulator and wanted strongly fly complete missions from CVs with aircrafts that have the quality and functionality that has the wonderful Viper.
I hope that this thread serves to listen proposals and solutions on the question of naval operations in Falcon BMS.

Thank you very much for allowing me to express these ideas of a veteran virtual naval pilot.

[Blitzjaeger]

The next update 4.33 will have a revamped Naval operations including an f-18 cockpit. Also there is already an F-14 cockpit and FM being worked on currently that looks amazing. you can try the WIP in the 80’s theater

[ScRaPeD]

@Blitzjaeger:

The next update 4.33 will have a revamped Naval operations including an f-18 cockpit. Also there is already an F-14 cockpit and FM being worked on currently that looks amazing. you can try the WIP in the 80’s theater

There is an 18 Pit(Done) that will be there. But Do you have inside info on the Naval Ops? I was under the impression that wasn’t a focus at all. In terms of carrier functionality as well as the fleet, and or individual ships. What I am getting at is that what you see now is what you will get in 4.33. If not thats great even better. Would love a carrier revamp

[pandacat]

I am also craving for carrier ops. I have stopped playing BMS for a little while now and went to play WWII style IL2 pacific campaigns. LOL. Anyway, 110% support for carrior ops in BMS.

[Mav-jp]

No carrier improvments in the pipe

However improvments could be

1. capability to spawn on carrier in MP ( I honnestly have no idea how to do this properly)
2. working mirrors
3. deck real Z detection
4. taskforce waypoints working

Other stuff are more cosmetics and depend only on art guys will

[Arty]

for no 1: nsqdrn. n for naval. (???)

[nmasso]

Arty

Your question is directed to me? Well, I’m revisted in an argentine veteran squad that reproduce the air operations of the Argentine Navy in the middle 50s. We flew F4U Corsair, Panthers and many postkorean props and jets based in historical argentine carriers in campaigns and missions set at that time in many places of the world. If you and another pilot wants to know our squad, follow this link: www.gaev.com.ar (the site is in spanish).
At the same time I’m training with Falcon BMS learning its modern flight and combat systems, but my idea is some day fly in a F18 and F14 squad based on BMS sim.

[Arty]

nope… mav.

Also carriers don’t get and a campaign ID? could u combine the naval sqdrn with this campid?

but i’m sure u r looking for something way deeper then this…

[Mav-jp]

@Arty:

for no 1: nsqdrn. n for naval. (???)

???

[A.S]

Another thing would be to utilize ships as “flight” types (DB-code), thus enabling them to use “fligthpathes” (in quotes) , so one can task their routes aka waypoints (done so in AF).

PS: Is there anyone in the BMS Dev team currently expirienced enough or working on the campaign code itself so i can share information and tips with? If so, please PM.

… the always friendly A.S

[Mav-jp]

@A.S:

Another thing would be to utilize ships as “flight” types (DB-code), thus enabling them to use “fligthpathes” (in quotes) , so one can task their routes aka waypoints (done so in AF).

PS: Is there anyone in the BMS Dev team currently expirienced enough or working on the campaign code itself so i can share information and tips with? If so, please PM.

… the always friendly A.S

That was my point 4

[A.S]

I know

Right now its even not possible (afaik) to make ships static. You can change speed to 0 or put movetype 0 (static) in DB, and they still move in a “quare box fashion”.
If they are placed close to land - such has ports or coast - then ,they dont move, which is good Any idea how to address this?

PS offtopic extra for you: Mav-JP, open :\Falcon BMS 4.32\Docs\Falcon 4 Legacy Manuals\ Falcon 4.0 Original Manual.pdf - please and go to chapter 26 to 26-5.
Can we recover those in BMS as it should be maybe possible due to the herritage of the code?
Right now SAM and AAA tactics dont work as in the original version of F4 and in AF, which is too pitty.

… the always friendly A.S

[Mav-jp]

@A.S:

I know

Right now its even not possible (afaik) to make ships static. You can change speed to 0 or put movetype 0 (static) in DB, and they still move in a “quare box fashion”.
If they are placed close to land - such has ports or coast - then ,they dont move, which is good Any idea how to address this?

… the always friendly A.S

How to address this ? See point 4 , decode you can not

[Fenrir]

What is the problem with 1)? I searched the forums and one locked thread was about the ac not being “connected” to the 3d carrier after landing, and one just said you explode if you spawn on the carrier in mp.
Is it a sync problem when spawning? Does the player “take control” of the carrier from the server when spawning? Would it be better if the carriers were deaggregated(spell that once more) all the time and server controlled?

Cheers

[Arty]

well the thing is spawn… didn’t fully understood the question. As i got it he must mean how to have ai take off from carriers? That’s why i said to create naval squadrons to bound them with the carriers.

Now as Mav said about the Zaxis of the deck… well this could also be used for airbases and have more realistic elevation, or uneven elevations, and not the flat airbases we have know. Did I got it wrong?

Also once again, sorry!!!, could u please create for ships the units transport? as is the airlift? This will solve way many troops transport problems in many theaters with islands. But not only for troops, vehicles also.

[Mav-jp]

@Arty:

well the thing is spawn… didn’t fully understood the question. As i got it he must mean how to have ai take off from carriers? That’s why i said to create naval squadrons to bound them with the carriers.

Now as Mav said about the Zaxis of the deck… well this could also be used for airbases and have more realistic elevation, or uneven elevations, and not the flat airbases we have know. Did I got it wrong?

Also once again, sorry!!!, could u please create for ships the units transport? as is the airlift? This will solve way many troops transport problems in many theaters with islands. But not only for troops, vehicles also.

Spawning on a carrier in MP is not reliable that’s the point

[Lukas]

Edit: I added quote (because my answer was related rather to ships generally, not to classic F14,18 etc carrier ops)
AS wrote:

Right now its even not possible (afaik) to make ships static. You can change speed to 0 or put movetype 0 (static) in DB, and they still move in a “quare box fashion”.

U can make invisible objective with PT points. Then u can place NAVAL unit over it and particular ships will sit in defined formation/orientation. This is how I created “composite units” described bellow…ok its rather “Demer style” typed :D, but u can perhaps dig some inspiration from it…

What I did in my AF European mod some time ago to enhance NAVAL ops was a mix of unit types and texture sets:

PT boats, missile boats, stealthy corvettes - Ground units
(i did 2 submarine types this way as well - attack and missile, special munitions needed against them - generic units same for red and blue side)

• they can be managed via waypoints, can be slaved to HQ and are participating in the campaign (one of camp objectives can be the naval one)
• can engage all types of targets, visible missile armament
• are not auto displayed on the campmap (u must make recon)
  ± they are smokeing (it looks nice)
  -moveing on fake sea texture, if u take S-8 armed KA-29 and rocket small meneuvering PT boat, u can see ground poles (solution - remove poles geometry, imagine its loosing petrol, change pole geometry, change “splash” management- would be linked to alpha map instead region for example etc. code change, make just very small water region circle 1pixel somewhere on the tile - units should move as it was said many times no matter how region looks, it just has to be present for “movable” tile)

Frigates and larger were true naval units, but some sea tiles were land tiles:
these units are still visible in 2d map
uses normal NAVAL code
can launch air units
carriers, LHDs (we all know them)
Frigates, destroyers, cruisers etc… can launch helis and cruise missiles
if these units placed on normal water tile, they follow coded patterns
(Carriers were static in AF)
some units are “composited”, means I did for example DDG_SA_b and DDG_SS_bh (name is optional of course) vehicles with SA and SS weapons, if u put them on normal sea tile, they move as normal ships, just looks damaged (DDG_SA_b looks ok in forward section but has heavily damaged stern, DDG_SS_bh has damaged rather nose, but stern section with Harpoons and helipad is ok…so u see damged formation of two ships following pattern
if u place them on land type sea tile with defined invisible objective, they are composited into one undamaged ship…this ship is capable to engage air, sea, undersea and ground targets using guns, AAA, SA, SS, manageable (even flyable) cruise missiles, helis for armed patrols and recon missions
Such a ship has damage point divided into 2 pieces - 2 missile hits can destroy its SA capability, but it can launch helis and fire antiships missiles, another 2 hits needed to kill it…inclemental damage model (btw it was even better to set helipad together with shorter SA-2d takeoffs + landings not blocked by 3d player, and make longer SS …)

short in time…must end…I tried objective based navals as well…each solution has + and -…I liked vehicle/unit approach more, it is simple, moveable…usefull as static port protection too (BTW these composed units were ment for static protection primary, my intention was to use all 3 naval types - classic, composite and fake GU…perhaps fifth “objective based” type for CGN, but…)

sample “generic red frigate” (it was fast work, i used ccc’s hull mast and gun, remodeled, made structures, mapping and fast texture)
damaged Lod is hidden inside undamaged geometry, when both parts operational

armed with SAM, heavy gun, light AAA, KH-35 and 1 heli 4 ship squad/flight, 1 frigate unit had 2 ships - means 4 damaged vehicles on move, 2 ships when sitting on static tile…there was a topic opened in the near past - about the smallest air squad…if smaller could be set, 2 vehicle unit is possible…or use drone heli instead of heavy Kamov - I belive 4 such a small drones are suitable for one complete frigate
http://i844.photobucket.com/albums/ab4/Luk77/all_light_helis.jpg
BTW DDG can operate 2 helis, some large cruisers even 3…
P.S: i just realized i forgot to turn off imperfect destroyed LOD, when took screenshots of both SS and SA “damaged” LODs, so fallen mast and imperfect central texture stitch is not visible normaly, it belongs to destroyed model

[Raven1402]

Thank you at BMS for always considering all of our dreams for an amazing combat flight sim. One thing I would love would be a few more nav aids on the carriers so that we could more easily find them in weather and at night. TACAN and ILS would be marvelous.

Thank you,

Raven

[Arty]

@Mav-jp:

Spawning on a carrier in MP is not reliable that’s the point

why not? why on airbases it is? and why not on carriers?
I assume cause carriers are on the move and airbases not?
One solution before spawn stop the carrier so to fixate the position. After they leave have it on it’s way…

[Mav-jp]

@Raven1402:

Thank you at BMS for always considering all of our dreams for an amazing combat flight sim. One thing I would love would be a few more nav aids on the carriers so that we could more easily find them in weather and at night. TACAN and ILS would be marvelous.

Thank you,

Raven

For your information, carriers have already TACAN and ILS you need to set the correct frequency, read the naval ops article available on this website