Dealing with SA-10 and proper MK20 employment
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I posted these in another thread a while back.
If you stay under 200 ft. you have a good chance at survival. While not always practical, you should try to plan your ingress with as little resistance as possible. Because of the location of the SA-10’s in my examples, I was able to plan my route to come in from the sea (I had cleared the coastline in previous missions) with minimum exposure to other ground forces. In some cases, when the missiles launch and I get under 200 ft. fast enough, they just go ballistic. When they do track and I go below 200 ft, they stay on course but can’t get a good track and fall off to one side or the other as they lose steam. As a side note, you will notice in the tapes, that I am lofting the HARM for range.
Another method (as mentioned above) is to launch as high and far as possible, and then run like hell. I’ve had success with this as well, but the SA-10 always climbs high (goes ballistic) on launch and then starts tracking. The missile flies faster and better at that altitude than you do. You want to launch on the edge of the envelope here, and if that is not possible, go around for another run. It is not worth it to keep flying into its kill radius if not emitting. If you see a 10 inside the threat ring on the RWR, assume you have been fired on. Again, assume you have been fired on. THERE IS NO LAUNCH WARNING.
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I got a hit on an SA-10 yesterday from 59nm 26,000ft. Shoot at max range then do a split S and fly away, assume he will shoot. 45nm is too close. Patriot and SA-10 are probably the best sam systems in the world they might hit you from time to time if you go too close.
.In BMS for sure. There are more sophisticated and longer range SAMs outside of BMS though. Its probably a good thing BMS does not have SA-23s, I would have torn my hair out otherwise!
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This may have changed (It has been a while since I tested this) but frag an EF-111 if available. It will (would) shut down everything, including SA-10s. I’ve flown up to them at altitude and gone in for guns without ever being fired on.
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The problem is the modeling values of SA-10. In RL (as I know) below 125 km/h radial speed it drops the target. Also an issue than in game never was defined which S-300 variant is modeled. Because of bubble limitation the PT/PS what fits for Falcon even they are quite old. (This is why strange to me why is pushed Falcon always to latest era which cannot be modeled well…)
S-300PT (1979)
5V55K missile
range 5-47 km (missile kinematic range is far higher than the limit of the RCG guidance)
alt 25-25000 m
radio command guided
max. target speed 1200 m/sS-300PT, PS (1981) / PMU (exported variant)
5V55R missile
range 5-75 km (missile kinematic range is far higher than the limit of the RCG guidance)
alt 25-25000 m
radio command guided + SAGG in terminal phase
max. target speed 1200 m/sS-300PM (1989) / PMU-1 (exported variant)
48N6 missile
range 5-150 km (missile kinematic range is likely still higher than the limit guidance)
alt 25-27000 m
radio command guided + SAGG in terminal phase
max. target speed 1800 m/sS-300PMU-2 (2004) (first exported was in China)
48N6D missile
5-200 km (missile kinematic range is likely still higher than the limit guidance)
25-27000 m
radio command guided + SAGG in terminal phase
max. target speed 2800 m/sS-400 (2007) (Was renamed from S-300PMU-3 because of marketing reasons.)
48N6DM missile
5-250 km (missile kinematic range is likely quite close to max. eng. range)
25-27000 m
radio command guided + SAGG in terminal phase
max. target speed 4800 m/s96M6 / 9M96D ABM missiles with gas dynamic vectoring steering system
5-250 km (missile kinematic range is likely quite close to max. eng. range)
25-20000 m / 5 - 30000 m
radio command guided + SAGG in terminal phase
max. target speed 4800 m/s
active radar guidance
Nobody ever have posted images about this missiles. -
One thing missing here is the note that F-16’s don’t normally take on SA-10 installations in a solo flight. I don’t know all the real ways things are done, but I had some fun with a few friends in an online campaign on a DEAD, 2 flights, 2 ships each - the lead flight was the “trigger” group flying point and with a goal to bait the SA-10’s Flap Lid and then go defensive. The second flight (mine) was the shooting group, and we launched on the Flap Lid while (at this point) the lead group was heading back towards us at a much higher altitude, and immediately after launch, we were all on an escape vector. No clue if this is on par with real world tactics, but from what I heard, it’s somewhat similar. If anyone knows, it would be great to learn.
Semler, you were flying what was described in Viper Pilot as a “six pack”(albeit in your case a 4 pack ).Flying that type of scenario in BMS is exactly the reason I’m working on my flying skills(want to be a contributing member of my VFW)
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Can the BMS devs or anyone who has tested for this tell me if the ‘Incoming Missile’ [7-key] view shows an en-route SA-10 homing in on you like it does for other SAMs and AAMs?
BUMP!
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Can the BMS devs or anyone who has tested for this tell me if the ‘Incoming Missile’ [7-key] view shows an en-route SA-10 homing in on you like it does for other SAMs and AAMs?
It does.
Cheers! -
One thing missing here is the note that F-16’s don’t normally take on SA-10 installations in a solo flight. I don’t know all the real ways things are done, but I had some fun with a few friends in an online campaign on a DEAD, 2 flights, 2 ships each - the lead flight was the “trigger” group flying point and with a goal to bait the SA-10’s Flap Lid and then go defensive. The second flight (mine) was the shooting group, and we launched on the Flap Lid while (at this point) the lead group was heading back towards us at a much higher altitude, and immediately after launch, we were all on an escape vector. No clue if this is on par with real world tactics, but from what I heard, it’s somewhat similar. If anyone knows, it would be great to learn.
If I remember correctly, the SA-10 is probably capable to control 16 missiles at the same time (But I think Falcon Code is not able to do that - atleast in v4.32. With 4.33 they did change something I think).
Also I think I’ve read that it might recognize targets even at a few feets - if you get a LOS on it and you don’t have a mountain close on your six, it will probably be able to detect you.But to be honest, the real capabilities will be known once they were used multiple times in a war - or in 30 years.
Until then I would call it guestimating^^. -
In RL SA-10 is a NO GO with 4thgen fighters.
In BMS is another history…
My question is, in the near future can we expect some improvements in SAM’s vs ARM’s Pk’s, and vice-versa? -
@Alienslayer:
In RL SA-10 is a NO GO with 4thgen fighters.
This is not exactly true… Which version and what eq?
S-300PT (1979)
5V55K missile
range 5-47 km (missile kinematic range is far higher than the limit of the RCG guidance)
alt 25-25000 m
radio command guided
max. target speed 1200 m/sAGM-88 range and high alt is way higher than 5V5KK because of limitation of pure RCG…
S-300PT, PS (1981) / PMU (exported variant)
5V55R missile
range 5-75 km (missile kinematic range is far higher than the limit of the RCG guidance)
alt 25-25000 m
radio command guided + SAGG in terminal phase
max. target speed 1200 m/sAGM-88 range is still higher…
The first really area denial is S-300PM/PMU-1. Only problem it has 125 km/h radial speed limit, beaming works against this. This is why did beam the Hornet during AF after launhed a HARM against the Bulgarian S-300PMU. SAM turned off the radar and HARM after 100 km+ gliding hit house which was luckly empty.HARM launch was at ‘37’ then came the beaming. SAM went offline and HARM missed the target.
Towed decoy also works against PMU-1 very likely even against S-400. In BMS4 is no towed decoy because of modeling limitatios and S-300 also does not drop the target below 125 km/h radial speed.
My question is, in the near future can we expect some improvements in SAM’s vs ARM’s Pk’s, and vice-versa?
ARMs are way more accurate then in RL but it nothing wrong with SAM ACC. You cannot outmanouver a missile of an S-300. It is too fast and you have no idea where it is becase has smoke only in the first 8-10 sec. This is why has DAS on F-35, it can see the climbing missiel and maybe even in mid phase. The M7.0 burnout speed means quite high temp. on the nose of missile and is always come from sky background which means is it iq quite clear IR target.