AAR beginner questions
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Did it! Had my first - very short - connect today! I’m very happy!
Congratulations!! Once you dispel the myth that AAR in simulations are only for those with superhuman dexterity, once you prove to yourself that you CAN do it, it’ll happen more and more often and the frustration of failed attempts will get less and less severe. Soon after that, you will “transcend” and be like rmax who has now stopped gunning down tankers over South Korea!
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What really helped me was a few hours formation flying behind boom trying keeping the boom just above HUD and playing with small thrust corrections until my eyes and hands got used to it. Repeat the same in Tanker turns. Then gradually proceed to top off skills. Relax fly the boom and horizon small corrections and try to practice formation flying on every mission. Keep it realistic will help you more.;)
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What really helped me was a few hours formation flying behind boom trying keeping the boom just above HUD and playing with small thrust corrections until my eyes and hands got used to it. Repeat the same in Tanker turns. Then gradually proceed to top off skills. Relax fly the boom and horizon small corrections and try to practice formation flying on every mission. Keep it realistic will help you more.;)
^ that’s all there is to it, great job lgbomber!
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So, two very smooth complete fills the past two days and just today one that took me a lot of approaches with connects and disconnects until I managed to fill her up. Well, one of those days…
I don’t know, changing from the Cougar to the Warthog to Warthog +Tusba-Cougar-Throttle helped. I guess the Morphine profile with the big dead zone before afterburner didn’t help. Might be that or the more experience I’ve got. Probably a combination of both.
I think I also learned that doing nothing with the throttle once you are connected help most. So just slight changes if the light says up or down but ignoring slight deviations from forward/afterwards - unless of course lights move to the extreme ends or a clear tendency can be seen… (like another “Don’t chase the needle”)
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With the throttle, I just follow the F–-A lights. When I’m on the green, I put it on the “sweet spot” that holds the speed. When the light goes fore or aft by one, I give a quick burst of throttle (or chop the throttle) then back to the sweet spot. I could nudge the throttle up/down as needed but the engine needs some time to react and sometimes I feel like I’m chasing the lights all the time. That quick burst gives me the needed adjustment much quicker. If I need more adjustment, I hold the burst for a bit longer, but I don’t go back to the sweet spot straight away. Instead, I do the opposite for a bit, then go to the sweet spot. For example, if I am at the red F light, I give the jet full throttle for 2-3 seconds, then idle for 2 seconds, then sweet spot. That gives me a good nudge forward, then idle throttle to kill the forward movement, then sweet spot to hold my position.
While testing the wingman position in the AAR TE, the tanker started turning soon after lead finished topping off. I decided to test my formation skills on the turn and was actually able to top off with only 1 disconnect. This is my 3rd or 4th time to connect while in the turn and it does feel really good! I will be practicing flying off lead’s wingtip as he tanks so that when he comes off, I get cleared in straight away.
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Yay Freemind.
Yeah I came to the same conclusion. It’s too easy for me to lose the throttle sweet spot that Ice has down pat. I can just ease back the stick a little bit and the F will move towards A. At some point it’s obvious that the slight pitch adjustment won’t do the trick, then I go to Ice’s move. But before I nudge the throttle I want to make sure I am flying dead level or I will pop up. So I have now been refueling with the HUD on and it is helpful now that I have broken the habit of focusing on it like a noob. But I can check for steady level before nudging the throttle if the situation doesn’t demand an immediate nudge.
At this point I can connect in a turn, stay connected during a turn, coming out of a turn almost every time. Keep at it and I’m sure you’ll do as well or better!
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At this point I can connect in a turn, stay connected during a turn, coming out of a turn almost every time. Keep at it and I’m sure you’ll do as well or better!
Very impressive!!
While I still fly with the HUD on, I just glance at it sometimes to get my bearings. Once near the tanker, I turn off my TrackIR and target-fixate on the tanker and the lights. I base my inputs on the sight picture and what the tanker lights tell me; I don’t look much at the HUD or the airspeed readout and I don’t even look at the horizon. Just the tanker. The convenience of having the HUD on is that when I start to PIO or over/undershoot, I can do a quick glance at my FPM/pitch ladder or my airspeed and get a rough idea of how much stick or throttle correction I would need to do to get back in the comfort zone.
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So, short update. My performance varies. But on average I get the tanks full with three reconnects during straight flight. Of course I will continue training.
Now I wonder if it makes sense to fly the KC-135 heavy aircraft training mission as well. Or should I stick with the KC-10 light mission for now?
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So, short update. My performance varies. But on average I get the tanks full with three reconnects during straight flight. Of course I will continue training.
Now I wonder if it makes sense to fly the KC-135 heavy aircraft training mission as well. Or should I stick with the KC-10 light mission for now?
In the TE scenario, the tanker changes but the F16 too, it’s much lighter. The experience is quite the same but it can be interesting to switch and see. The tanker doesn’t make much of a difference IMHO.
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I used to practice with the light fighter (Block 15), but I had issues with the aircraft always banking towards the left… cause unknown. Does it do the same for you guys?
Practicing with the loaded F-16 (Block 40) was more difficult as the “sweet spot” seemed to be smaller, and also the tanker felt a lot closer! This made me very nervous and tense and it was difficult to stay in position…. until I got used to it. The KC-135 also has a smaller “window” for refuelling so you’ll need to be very precise or you’ll get disconnected more often. Page 158 of the Dash-1 shows the KC-135 boom can only go 10degrees left/right (20degrees total) and 20degrees up/down with a 12foot extension/compression limit. Page 160 shows that for a KC-10/KDC-10 has 23degrees left/right (46degrees total) and 15degrees up/down with a 15foot extension/compression limit.
The HUD setup of the Block 40 was also an issue as it used to hide some cues that I was used to seeing in the Block 15, but I’ve come to use the top of the Blk 40 HUD as a reference point as well.
Go ahead and try it; it’ll definitely be a very different experience!
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I used to practice with the light fighter (Block 15), but I had issues with the aircraft always banking towards the left… cause unknown. Does it do the same for you guys?
Remember having it with the Cougar. I guess it was a calibration issue.
The heavy scenario is very difficult for me. Once I have a stable position and am connected, the tanker starts turning (suggestion for 4.34: scenario where the tanker does not turn that often). I find it harder to find the right thrust setting as the reaction is so much slower.
However if I compare it with my very first tries I never again crashed into the tanker.
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Remember having it with the Cougar. I guess it was a calibration issue.
I’m pretty sure that’s not the issue for me. I can go in the Block 15 and have it rolling left even without touching the stick, exit the mission, then go into the Block 40 and have THAT aircraft stable even without touching the stick. No uncommanded left roll on any other TE as well.
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Remember having it with the Cougar. I guess it was a calibration issue.
The heavy scenario is very difficult for me. Once I have a stable position and am connected, the tanker starts turning (suggestion for 4.34: scenario where the tanker does not turn that often). I find it harder to find the right thrust setting as the reaction is so much slower.
However if I compare it with my very first tries I never again crashed into the tanker.
Yeah I’m pretty sure its setup that way to push you trying to connect faster and stay connected through the turn. At first I hated that but now I’m glad they set it up so each time you practice the heavy load you also are practicing getting in there fast and staying on during the turn. Tonight it really paid off for me because I had 100 to 200 lbs of fuel left when the tanker entered the turn. I don’t always connect once the tanker has entered the turn, but I did it tonight and I am pretty sure I would have had to do a flame out landing had it not been for how that AAR training mission is setup. I hate the maverick training mission, but the AAR paid off.
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Yesterday I did it! I flew the blk 15 and was able to connect and top off, and once I did that I continued practicing until I am able to do it consistently and quickly now! However I still can’t stay connected during a turn (definitely can’t get into position when the tanker is already in a turn), and when I wasn’t able to do it with the blk 40 yet except for a few seconds at a time. But still, this is pretty big for me I always thought I’d never get to this point!
Cheers!
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Fly as #2 in the Block 40, request refuel as soon as the mission starts, and try the Quick Flow procedure. You’ll only have a few moments to connect before the tanker starts turning.
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Awesome Eurybaric!
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So, short update: No big problems filling up the Blk 15 - except connecting and staying connected in turns.
How should I proceed? Mastering the Blk 15 scenario or gain more experience with the Blk 40 - found it quite hard not to constantly under- and overshoot.
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You can do both? AAR in the 15 “feels different” compared to the 40 because of the altitude, aircraft config, and the tanker you are connecting to. Swap between the two every now and again to “shake things up a bit.” Staying connected during a turn is hard, connecting during a turn is harder; you can leave them for later. Get confidence in your approach, practice going from pre-contact to contact to taking fuel in a smooth and timely manner. Learn how not to panic in a PIO… keep calm, back off, and try again.
Hope that helps!
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You can do both? AAR in the 15 “feels different” compared to the 40 because of the altitude, aircraft config, and the tanker you are connecting to. Swap between the two every now and again to “shake things up a bit.” Staying connected during a turn is hard, connecting during a turn is harder; you can leave them for later. Get confidence in your approach, practice going from pre-contact to contact to taking fuel in a smooth and timely manner. Learn how not to panic in a PIO… keep calm, back off, and try again.
Hope that helps!
Thanks for the tipps! I think keeping calm and relax at the right phases is very important. Interestingly yesterday I switched from headphone to a new loudspeaker sound system and performed terribly. Maybe coincidence, maybe I’m used to the sound changes. Strange day.