SEAD tactics - israel theater
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HTS+HARM are effective ELINT as is JSTARS. When you take off and your HAD page is full of little green numbers, that is the result of ELINT. Some problems with Falcon is ELINT is either 100% accurate or 0% accurate, at least at time of generation. We miss several tools to turn this intel into targeting data, especially while airborne. Imagine one F-16 flying with JASSM, one operator in 2D map watching as JSTARSs gets on station. Suddenly JSTARS spots a pop up SA-10 due to ELINT. Operator recons to get precision lat/long gets on the phone with ACC C-130 who radios F-16 giving lat/long. JASSM away, SA-10 kill. It’s a complete hack Falcon job but something like real capability.
Red SAM are quite hamstrung too. AI shouts at the top of its lungs HEREIAM HEREIAM HEREIAM. It never shoots and scoots. It’s never intimidated when a known F-16CJ base launches a two ship straight at it. Even without ARM, it’s not fair how stupid AI ADS is.
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Did you read the article where Israel is seeking a 5 billion loan to buy AGM-88s? That was in summer 2013.
Do we have the capability in Falcon to have an ELINT platform triangulate the emitting radar and pass the coordinates to us so we can use JDAM or GBU-15?
There are a lot of real-world capabilities missing from Falcon, and other things modeled poorly. I wonder if not having the full capabilities of the IAF, coupled with “realistic” weapon loadouts doesn’t sort of miss the point. You’re not giving the player AGMs, but you’re also not giving the player the myriad ways the IAF has to do SEAD in lieu of those weapons.
Does that make sense?
Valid points, and taking out munitions was not done without considering this. My view is that the current situation is better, because while the IAF may perform SEAD with JDAMs or LGBs, it certainly does not perform it with HARMs (which it doesn’t have). Having everyone flying around with HARMs would not be correct.
There are other capabilities which are not present in Falcon and we manage without them in every theater. In depth EW simulation, IFF, drones, etc.
And while HARMs are not present, you do have on IAF F-16s internal jammer (and two seaters [D/I] actually have a stronger one) and many more chaff / flare dispensers. In addition we are encouraging everyone to take the HTS on two seaters to simulate the more advanced ESM equipemnt present in these jets internally. I agree with what Frederf says about the HTS and ELINT. So we did what we could within the limits to enhance the SEAD capability.
SPI and better modeling of GPS weapons is being worked on, including some Made in Israel presents
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including some Made in Israel presents
+1
I am too working on some stuff to enhance IAF abilities and expand the db, if you would like to implement these when they will be ready I could pass it over to you with the appropriate documentation for future releases.
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Thanks Raptor, check PM
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Kel’aa is the name given to the HARM in the IDF, according to some sites found in the inet via a quick google search. That of course does not mean that they have it in their inventory. Several sources in the inet state that Israel is still trying to buy the HARM from USA (see e.g. http://www.upi.com/Business_News/Security-Industry/2013/07/01/Israel-seeks-5B-in-US-loans-to-buy-arms/UPI-49641372706630/). Besides, taking a look on the database of SIPRI from 1991 until now, you find tons of weapons sold by USA to Israel, from laser JDAMS to SDB, Hellfire, Popeye, TOW, Sidewinder, AMRAAMs etc. but no HARM. I think the key to answer why Israel does not have any ARM weapon is a powerful and extended employment of ELINT/JAMING/DECOYs.
BTW: @Echo…we in the 185th are about to start a Campaign on Israel for the squadron in the next days. You guys did a very nice job! Cheers!
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they could just be lying. states have been known to lie. i made the thread and i’m going to give israel another try now. tbh i kind of like the lower tech feel of it, sidewinders only: final destination
i think when i started the thread i was just really bad at dodging SAs heh
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So much for ELINT
Weasel back on duty.
HARM sales on the raise. -
More one quick remark from me regarding the lack of an ARM in Israel nowadays: Would not be the case to increase the ECM strength in the BMS DB of the F-16I flown by Israel, in order to simulate within the constraints of Falcon4/BMS its internal EW avionics?
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I think they already did….
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More one quick remark from me regarding the lack of an ARM in Israel nowadays: Would not be the case to increase the ECM strength in the BMS DB of the F-16I flown by Israel, in order to simulate within the constraints of Falcon4/BMS its internal EW avionics?
As jinro said,
We didto all Is and Ds - check the Docs folder for more details.
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Simply, amazing. That really speaks for ITO and the job you have done.
Cheers!
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Hi Cik, here is a method I fell upon in a recent campaign. If you take off from airfield we will call A and your target is an enemy airfield at C, cut a path from A to C right throug B. This might take a couple of days of repeated SEAD, INTERDICTION, and CAS. You will still need to fly NOE for your attack runs to C. It is a big challenge but it is also realistic, and it will help you win the war.
I really wish my dad was still alive. He was a air war commander who had to mentally visulize things we do today with BMS Falcon. He would have loved it. Thanks BMS for the wonderful gift.
Raven
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@Raven,
you don’t have to go via B to get to C
BMS mission planner likes giving you the shortest route, but sometime, it’s better to manually edit and help yourself by planning a little de-touri.e the Golan is filled with SAM, AAA and Mech battalions. however, going north over the sea and cutting east through Lebanon would make your life easier.
there are two large ridges on both sides of the Bakaa Vally, they will mask you from Syrian AD until you are well into Syrian territory. Sometime if done right you can drop weapons on Demascus before they even know you are there. Of course all the Lebanese costline is just waiting for you to come from the sea bearing gifts. where BMS will usually send you smack through the middle for everyone to shoot at. -
Thanks for all the info - just started my first Israeli campaign and noted the same problems as the IP… Was wondering about the lack of HARM’s - I guess this explains it - sort of… I’d better brush up on my toss bombing - as high speed CBU passes over the top are getting me killed every time (first A-G mission)…
Regards,
Scott -
SEAD/DEAD in Israel makes me wish the B61 was available…
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If you’re flying single player, like me, then while these tips are great for me and my flight, they aren’t much help for the rest of the AI warfighters that are going to fly the way the AI air tasking manager tasks them.
There’s “real” and then there’s “what’s possible given the limitations of the AI in a computer game.”