Cougar FSSB/FCC/? mod

[Falk]

I’ve had my Couger for quite a few years now and the urge to get it modded to a force based stick grows. Are the Realsim FSSB R1 & R2 as well as the FCC3 the main options?

Would the Realsim FSSB R3 be compatible with a Couger as it apparently comes with a replacement PCB too for “stand-alone” mode ? Would it fit within the cougar base like r1/r2 or need to be used without base?

I’m wondering about the R3, as should I need to replace my stick for any reason, it would probably be easier to acquire a Warthog than Couger and the mod could then be reused. Assuming the R3 is usable with the Couger, is there any pro/con to the R2 over the R3?

Other option is get the FCC3 which looks around the price of an R1. Money saved over the R2 or R3 would likely cover some additional spare parts for the bits of the cougar (or throttle) that might one day break.

Other than FCC3 being smaller I think? and more likely to be useful to a simpit builder, is there any real difference between FCC3 and R1/R2?

Edit: Adding back paragraph breaks that posting seemed to eat.

[Blu3wolf]

Not having an FSSB to compare it to, all I can really do is comment on the quality of the FCC3.

I’d recommend it.

[AV8R]

@Falk:

I’ve had my Couger for quite a few years now and the urge to get it modded to a force based stick grows. Are the Realsim FSSB R1 & R2 as well as the FCC3 the main options?

For force static FBW-like contol, yes.

Would the Realsim FSSB R3 be compatible with a Couger as it apparently comes with a replacement PCB too for “stand-alone” mode ? Would it fit within the cougar base like r1/r2 or need to be used without base?

I’m wondering about the R3, as should I need to replace my stick for any reason, it would probably be easier to acquire a Warthog than Couger and the mod could then be reused. Assuming the R3 is usable with the Couger, is there any pro/con to the R2 over the R3?

The size of the Cougar mods (FCC3 or FSSB) will not fit in a smaller WHog base. You wouldn’t want to do the reverse either because they are designed to fit the bases for stability and calibration reasons. Maybe Arend might make the new FCC3-Warthog for either application, but you should ask him at his site. My guess is that if it were that easy and interchangeable, it wouldn’t have taken long for this new product to have been developed. Again ask him. As for the FSSB-R3 going in a Cougar, I seriously doubt it for the same reasons.

Other option is get the FCC3 which looks around the price of an R1. Money saved over the R2 or R3 would likely cover some additional spare parts for the bits of the cougar (or throttle) that might one day break.

Unless you use your Cougar alot (tens of thousands of hours), the R1 should be fine instead of the R2. The difference being automotive vs aeronautic quality parts.

If I were to start from scratch, and BMS was all I flew, id get a WHog stick and mod it FSSB-R3 or new FCC3-WHog, plus a Cougar TQS with hall sensor pot and TUSBA-R2.

Other than FCC3 being smaller I think? and more likely to be useful to a simpit builder, is there any real difference between FCC3 and R1/R2?

I have a Cougars modded with FCC3 and FSSB-R1. They are almost identical except how the pressure sensitivity is adjusted. The FSSB R1 and R2 are just quality of parts (MTBF) which is life cycle, not sensitivity.

Edit: Adding back paragraph breaks that posting seemed to eat.

My advice: Use a slot screwdriver for slotted head screws, and phillips for cross headed screws. Choose either Cougar or Warthog stick and mod with its advertised force product. But you can use a WHog stick with a Cougar TQS with a TUSBA

[Stevie]

@Falk:

I’ve had my Couger for quite a few years now and the urge to get it modded to a force based stick grows. Are the Realsim FSSB R1 & R2 as well as the FCC3 the main options?

Would the Realsim FSSB R3 be compatible with a Couger as it apparently comes with a replacement PCB too for “stand-alone” mode ? Would it fit within the cougar base like r1/r2 or need to be used without base?

I’m wondering about the R3, as should I need to replace my stick for any reason, it would probably be easier to acquire a Warthog than Couger and the mod could then be reused. Assuming the R3 is usable with the Couger, is there any pro/con to the R2 over the R3?

Other option is get the FCC3 which looks around the price of an R1. Money saved over the R2 or R3 would likely cover some additional spare parts for the bits of the cougar (or throttle) that might one day break.

Other than FCC3 being smaller I think? and more likely to be useful to a simpit builder, is there any real difference between FCC3 and R1/R2?

Edit: Adding back paragraph breaks that posting seemed to eat.

You’ve pretty much nailed it with your last observation - if you are building (or intend to build…) a cockpit, smaller is better and more options/flexibility are better. I’m building a pit so I’ve opted for the FCC3 - it’s made so that it fits to the top of an SSC base - so it’s also the logical choice for a pit build. Currently I have an FCC3 installed on my Cougar base, but Arend is working on an FSS3 specifically for the Warthog grip and that is the one I will buy and install in my cockpit.

I also have a TUSBA R2 for my Cougar TQS - again, because building a cockpit and I want options.

[chihirobelmo]

FSSB R3
Max. applied force 13 Lbs
Max. allowed force 20 Lbs

FSSB R1 & R2
Max. Applied force 35 Lbs
Max. allowed force 45 Lbs

from realsimulator.com

For Pushes, the “moveable” stick is actually the same as the original fixed stick. The deflection is purely due to bending of the stick. 0.0" at 0.0 lbs (obviously) and about 0.019" at 20lbs of force (again, forward force). The max command that the FLCS recognizes is at about 0.017", so there is just a little bit of deadband.

For Pulls, the actual (due to mechanical deflection) displacement is linear from 0.0" at 0.0 lbs to 0.178" at 31 lbs. This point (0.178"/31 lbs also results in the max command the FLCS can generate, assuming pitch trim is zero). Beyond 31 lbs, the stick only bends (as for the push case, and with the same gradient). At 40lbs the total displacment is about 0.186". This combo is significant because it will give max nose-up command in the FLCS if pitch trim is full nose down.

Quoted from F-16.net
http://www.f-16.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=20428

You might need FSSB R1/R2 if you would like to have realistic force required.

[Red Dog]

Just bear in mind that the higher the forces set, the more impossible it will become to use the modded cougar on an office desk.
if you use high force settings you WILL have to place the hotas as the real one

[Icarus]

Also, remember highest forces can end up with a broken tailpiece. Happened to me and others. I replaced it with a stainless steel one.

[Habu_]

There was a time when I DID fly a great many hours per week. I wore out a FSSB R1 mod in about 5 years. Replaced it with an R2 about 5 years ago.

[Blu3wolf]

Or bolt it to the desk… then topple the computer off the desk, get frustrated, and buy a VERY heavy desk to compensate for stick forces…

Or bolt it to the desk… then topple the computer off the desk, get frustrated, and buy a VERY heavy desk to compensate for stick forces…

[Red Dog]

oups, used edit rather than reply, sorry mate (been corrected )

the problem won’t be the desk, it’s rather going to be the pain in the arm and shoulder

[AV8R]

regarding sensitivity forces applied…

This is where I call out the difference between kinetic (if not frenetic) and heart surgeon stick force inputters. Some guys are just very physical with their joysticks (ie not body parts), and others are not. It also goes back to why some pilots like positional sticks (like the stock warthog and cougar) and others want force FBW mods, not only the input forces but also the feedback of moving something and its translation to flight. In real life, this was a big problem for some pilots transitioning to the Viper when it introduced FBW FSS.

So your flying style might also be a factor in choosing not only force sensitivities, but also static or positional sticks. For the kinetic cowboys, the Warthog stays on the table much better than the Cougar’s, as Reddog mentioned.

[Blu3wolf]

@Red:

oups, used edit rather than reply, sorry mate (been corrected )

the problem won’t be the desk, it’s rather going to be the pain in the arm and shoulder

Yah, its a factor too. Especially in BFM

[Falk]

@AV8R:

I have a Cougars modded with FCC3 and FSSB-R1. They are almost identical except how the pressure sensitivity is adjusted. The FSSB R1 and R2 are just quality of parts (MTBF) which is life cycle, not sensitivity.

I see the R1 allows pressure to be modified by dip switches, does the FCC3 have anything similar or does it rely on you modifying curves in the cougar software? I’ll have to do a bit more reading on this but it sounds like I’d be happy with either the FCC3 or R1. Cheers everyone for the advice.

[Planehazza]

Do what I did. Spend months designing a desk ‘addon’ that is study enough to have a force sensing stick added to it. I’ve finished the build but haven’t bought the stick yet ha.

[uri_ba]

@Falk:

I see the R1 allows pressure to be modified by dip switches, does the FCC3 have anything similar or does it rely on you modifying curves in the cougar software? I’ll have to do a bit more reading on this but it sounds like I’d be happy with either the FCC3 or R1. Cheers everyone for the advice.

it will have when the “Warthog version” will come out.

[Planehazza]

@uri_ba:

it will have when the “Warthog version” will come out.

The current FFC3 has pots you can adjust.

[uri_ba]

@Planehazza:

The current FFC3 has pots you can adjust.

The trim pots are for centering. Not for sensitivity

[Blu3wolf]

@Falk:

I see the R1 allows pressure to be modified by dip switches, does the FCC3 have anything similar or does it rely on you modifying curves in the cougar software? I’ll have to do a bit more reading on this but it sounds like I’d be happy with either the FCC3 or R1. Cheers everyone for the advice.

Its raw input has no adjustment, however the input windows ends up seeing gets modified first, twice. First modification is due to the calibration file, which is where you set sensitivity for the stick if you are using FCC3. Second modification is you can use curves to modify the output, and you can configure these curves on the fly with Foxy.

Completely ignore the option for curves, leave it linear. BMS applies its own transforms to your inputs with the assumption that your input is linear.

[AV8R]

The FSSB has sensitivity settings done via dip switches, but no tactile feedback adjustments (slight stick movement)

The FCC3 doesnt have hardware sensitivity adjustments as it can be done in software in curves and CCP calibration (i believe the strain gauges are preset to the real stick force pull specs), but it does come with either no mounting bushings, metal spring mount bushings or rubber o-ring bushings that provides different tactile feedback. The real FBW FSS has some stick play tactile feedback deflection, about 1/8 - 1/4 in iirc.

[uri_ba]

@AV8R:

The FSSB has sensitivity settings done via dip switches, but no tactile feedback adjustments (slight stick movement)

The FCC3 doesnt have hardware sensitivity adjustments as it can be done in software in curves and CCP calibration (i believe the strain gauges are preset to the real stick force pull specs), but it does come with either no mounting bushings, metal spring mount bushings or rubber o-ring bushings that provides different tactile feedback. The real FBW FSS has some stick play tactile feedback deflection, about 1/8 - 1/4 in iirc.

the “WH” version of FCC will have adjustable absolute force settings (along with some other “Easter eggs”)