4.33 Issues (Known or not)
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It’s a fair point ph34rbot.
The reason I added them are the following;
1. it’s TE number 15. By then you should be a bit more ready for these sort of things? The idea here was to provide some AA opposition to show the trainees the importance of keeping a sharp lookout and be ready for anything - which is also part of training.
For instance, switchting to MRM while you ingress or just after bomb release and place your state of mind in a defensive mode when you do AG. Howewer you’re releasing bombs, you should still think about the possibility of being jumped.
2. Those migs are actually tasked to intercept the IAM flight much later in the route and normally only the guys who will continue the flight to home after the weapon release will notice them. They should not pop up in the middle of the IAM procedure but after. Of course one need to respect timing for that
So IMHO they don’t not impact the training mission, they just add some spices to the end of the TE, adding a bit of AA to a training program that currently lacks it.
3. the migs are really lightly armed and should not be a problem (especially with your wingman you can also direct to them)These are the reasons they are in the TE, it’s intended as a post strike little surprise to keep you guys on your toes
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Also, in the first scenario of the Korean theater 3 jets of my flight disappeared from the runway and the airfield completely, and they were counted as RTB. Does that happen when I don’t takeoff as soon as I should?
That’s correct Osmeen… Flights are cancelled if TO time is missed. AFAIK there is a small margin of error that’s allowed, which allows you to adjust speed to hit planned Stpts on time… but once that becomes impossible, the flight is ordered to RTB
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@Red:
It’s a fair point ph34rbot.
The reason I added them are the following;
1. it’s TE number 15. By then you should be a bit more ready for these sort of things? The idea here was to provide some AA opposition to show the trainees the importance of keeping a sharp lookout and be ready for anything - which is also part of training.
For instance, switchting to MRM while you ingress or just after bomb release and place your state of mind in a defensive mode when you do AG. Howewer you’re releasing bombs, you should still think about the possibility of being jumped.This is perfectly fine for teaching situational awareness for a “frontline flying” type mission, but any trainee flying this mission is first and foremost concerned with getting the JSOWs and JDAMs on target as described in the manual.
2. Those migs are actually tasked to intercept the IAM flight much later in the route and normally only the guys who will continue the flight to home after the weapon release will notice them. They should not pop up in the middle of the IAM procedure but after. Of course one need to respect timing for that
I’ve only made sure that I was safely within the first 3rd of the range indicators for the JSOW or JDAM. This left me enough space for a safe turn to steerpoint 7 to avoid the SAMs, but by then (or a few seconds later), I get that dreaded “M” icon on the RWR.
So IMHO they don’t not impact the training mission, they just add some spices to the end of the TE, adding a bit of AA to a training program that currently lacks it.
You can’t train what you haven’t been taught yet, so unless you add a section to the training manual on how to deal with the MiGs in this mission, it will be a sheer exercise in frustration for anyone who hasn’t ever done any aerial combat in BMS and nothing but an unnecessary distraction to anyone else.
3. the migs are really lightly armed and should not be a problem (especially with your wingman you can also direct to them)
My wingman (or lead, depending on which weapon’s procedures you want to train), is pretty useless in the mission. Flying as lead, I never got asked for permission to engage and flying as wingman I got designated as shooter, but was too busy setting up AG weapon delivery.
These are the reasons they are in the TE, it’s intended as a post strike little surprise to keep you guys on your toes
Wrong place in the training pipeline though.
This discussion is a bit remiscent of the one about the startup procedure in the feedback thread for the training manual. If I had never touched BMS or a combat flight sim before, flicking buttons without immediate, visible effects (at startup) or getting shot down by something that I can not deal with yet (mission #15) will be a bit of a hit on motivation.
I know that it’s a lot of work to set up TEs and write manuals, but still, you need to go for the worst case scenario when it comes to the target audience, which, in BMS’ case might just be “has never touched a combat flight simulator before”.
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Id be inclined to agree on the topic of teaching things in order. I still disagree entirely on the ramp start, but in terms of training TEs, you want to match the items you are training on against what has been taught already.
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For a training mission, I’d say leave the surprises out. If you’re sitting there trying to fly the mission, pausing it do you can defence the manual, out having just sat there and read the manual and trying it out, let that be the focus. The point is to teach the use of weapon system. Cover the air combat in a separate lesson and sure, throw some surprises in there. But keep it relates to the task at hand. Set them up for success, not failure.
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Hey, if you don’t want to get jumped by the interceptors, you can mod it. Here is what i do.
1. Make a copy of the four files that deal with the TE. Found in the folder Falcon BMS 4.33\Data\Campaign\Save.
2. Paste them in another location.
3. Change the file names on the four files. I add an “R1” after the TE number.
4. Change the file extension of the one file that has .trn to .tac
5. Paste the four files back into the original location.
6. Start BMS and go into TE select tab Saved. Highlight the TE and click on the EDIT tab at the bottom.
7. Select the ATO and make sure you click on the box that shows all flights.
8. Expanded DPRK and right click on the intercept flight. Select delete.
9. Save the TE.You can do this with any .trn file. As with any file, make backup copy of them.
Now you can practice without the enemy aircraft. Once you are good, try the original TE and have the fighters intercept you.
Enjoy. I hope this helps you.
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I’ve only made sure that I was safely within the first 3rd of the range indicators for the JSOW or JDAM. This left me enough space for a safe turn to steerpoint 7 to avoid the SAMs, but by then (or a few seconds later), I get that dreaded “M” icon on the RWR.
Perfect timing So you could concentrate on the subject of the training mission and once you were done, you got the surprise The Migs didn’t impact your Iam training, they started their thing just after.
Well to be fair the training manual states :
As soon as all 4 JSOWs are gliding towards their target turn your aircraft away from the enemy air defenses. Select steerpoint 7 to exit the target area. You can now switch master mode to A-A or MRM and be ready for potential enemy fighters
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So I warned you guys
Now you tell me you have the dreaded M and then that bothers me, because these migs are supposed to be armed IR only and should be easy meat for a guy with enough experience to make 15 training missions
but it seems I forgot to change loadout and the migs aren’t lightly armed at all
I’ll correct that at least.As for the presence of migs or not. I said it was a fair point, but I believe my point is equally as fair
For too many years I have been a AG guy not caring enough about the AA situation and then I learned the importance to use the MRM modes and keep on my toes. In the grand scheme of things, it is as valid as the rest.
Furthermore, the training is not only intended for new guys but I also have to keep the Te’s interesting and challenging for the seasonned and returning pilots.
So compromises will have to be accepted on both side of the fences.
And as a final point, many would probably quit the TRN right after the Iam and would never notice the migs. It was intended to be for these flying their bird home.And as said in the foreword:
- Finally, there are multiple ways to operate the aircraft. Different airforces have different SOPs (Standard Operating Procedures) and therefore what you will read here is only one method of learning the jet. What you know may differ and that is accepted. The goal here is to document one method; we are sure some people know better.
That is my way of training Keep the guys on their toes saves virtual lifes further down
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That was a nice surprise……luckily I dodged the M and ran like a coward…only to turn around and shoot them both in the back…like a coward.
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@Red:
Perfect timing So you could concentrate on the subject of the training mission and once you were done, you got the surprise The Migs didn’t impact your Iam training, they started their thing just after.
Yes, they did. Again, I could never, ever see if they ever hit their targets because I was already dead by then. Which negates a lot of the effort put into learning the IAM procedures.
Well to be fair the training manual states :
.
So I warned you guysIf a training manual states “potential enemy fighters”, I’m not expecting enemy fighters because it’s training. (Relatively) Safe spaces and such.
Now you tell me you have the dreaded M and then that bothers me, because these migs are supposed to be armed IR only and should be easy meat for a guy with enough experience to make 15 training missions
but it seems I forgot to change loadout and the migs aren’t lightly armed at all
I’ll correct that at least.Mission Commander lists the loadout as 4 x AA-12 and 2 x AA-10.
As for the presence of migs or not. I said it was a fair point, but I believe my point is equally as fair
For too many years I have been a AG guy not caring enough about the AA situation and then I learned the importance to use the MRM modes and keep on my toes. In the grand scheme of things, it is as valid as the rest.
Furthermore, the training is not only intended for new guys but I also have to keep the Te’s interesting and challenging for the seasonned and returning pilots.
So compromises will have to be accepted on both side of the fences.
And as a final point, many would probably quit the TRN right after the Iam and would never notice the migs. It was intended to be for these flying their bird home.And as said in the foreword:
That is my way of training Keep the guys on their toes saves virtual lifes further down
I kind of figured. That’s why I’ve taken the liberty to modify the mission: https://www.benchmarksims.org/forum/showthread.php?24037-Default-4-33-IAM-Training-without-A2A&p=343658
Your default mission isn’t overwritten and people who like it easier have a chance to entirely focus on the IAM now. Win-win.
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Problem: player aircraft (mine) crashes when in autopilot mode at multiplied game speed.
Example: I get my plane up in the air, set autopilot to steer and altitude hold, and set the game to x8, x16, or even x64 speed (sometimes if I’m late getting to bed and want to land the plane quickly
However when I do this the plane always ends up crashing somehow. I’ve tried this several times and the plane will fly mostly stable at x8 and above, but it also dives and climbs erratically at times, eventually something fails. The last encounter with this problem my plane somehow ended up losing power and pretty much all forward momentum, dropping like a rock out of the sky; I had zero ability to control the plane and get it out of the stall.
This only happens when the speed is multiplied.
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Problem: player aircraft (mine) crashes when in autopilot mode at multiplied game speed.
Example: I get my plane up in the air, set autopilot to steer and altitude hold, and set the game to x8, x16, or even x64 speed (sometimes if I’m late getting to bed and want to land the plane quickly
However when I do this the plane always ends up crashing somehow. I’ve tried this several times and the plane will fly mostly stable at x8 and above, but it also dives and climbs erratically at times, eventually something fails. The last encounter with this problem my plane somehow ended up losing power and pretty much all forward momentum, dropping like a rock out of the sky; I had zero ability to control the plane and get it out of the stall.
This only happens when the speed is multiplied.
lol
sorry but this wont be ‘fixed’
we can not garantee stability at higher speed than x1, x8 bzeing indeed critical for physics engine -
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Problem: player aircraft (mine) crashes when in autopilot mode at multiplied game speed.
Example: I get my plane up in the air, set autopilot to steer and altitude hold, and set the game to x8, x16, or even x64 speed (sometimes if I’m late getting to bed and want to land the plane quickly
However when I do this the plane always ends up crashing somehow. I’ve tried this several times and the plane will fly mostly stable at x8 and above, but it also dives and climbs erratically at times, eventually something fails. The last encounter with this problem my plane somehow ended up losing power and pretty much all forward momentum, dropping like a rock out of the sky; I had zero ability to control the plane and get it out of the stall.
This only happens when the speed is multiplied.
… maybe one day “time compression” could be disabled in 3D to avoid such issues.
Don’t use this, it might gives troubles in 3D and in 2D world also.
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Not a 4.33 issue per se, but can the logic for triggering “enemy launch activity” calls be looked at for Update 1?
I’m running a campaign in which AWACS keeps spamming these while in the UI and it’s annoying the living daylights out of me.
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Not really a problem but when I look through programmes installed only see BMS 4.32; no sight of any other BMS or Falcon prog. ( Win 7 x64). The reason I ask is what would happen if I uninstalled 4.32?? (I know 4.33 is there somewhere as launches!)
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4.32 4.33 completely separate.
Yes, AWACS on U13 (UI as well) is VEERRRRY chatty. IVC UI-3D comms are quite irritating to use over constant AWACS spam.
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IVC UI-3D comms are quite irritating to use over constant AWACS spam.
Setup -> Sound -> disable “UI Radio Chatter”.
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Does not help the poor soul in 3D using U13.
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Litening pod weighs only 30 lbs when loaded on the AV-8B. Is this by design to not upset VTOL trim when everything else has been dropped? I noticed this when I loaded 2 GBU-12s outboard, one GBU-16 inboard to offset the pods weight- The harrier rolled like crazy in flight. I paid attention to the loadout screen and it shows a weight of only 30lbs.
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Does not help the poor soul in 3D using U13.
Avoid CH13 and prefer one of the Tactical Freq … CH13 (like CH14) is nothing realistic (sort of massive broadcast with heavy traffic).