CCIP seemingly can't get BLU anti runway bombs on target
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Hi,
are you sure about this I-hawk? Is CCIP different than CCRP in regards with ripple settings?
Regards,
FalconeerReason i ask, i just flew a CAS mission in which i dropped 12 Rockeyes in one pass, while having the 1st vehicle locked on in the column. Spacing set to 350ft @ 1250 BA and all bombs found their targets
He most surely is.
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I set
PROF1
SGL or PAIR
200FT
RP 1PROF2
SGL or PAIR
200FT
RP NFor N = 1 no difference is seen between solution PROF1 and PROF2 (I am frozen with no-delay CCIP solution on range target). This is of course expected as they are identical. I try N = 12, big pipper shift! Presumably a 1100’ change! N=11 smaller shift. N=10 smaller still. N=…. N=3 smallest shift.
But N = 2, the pipper does not move at all! PUAC changes (presumably correctly). The 2 weapon release is behaving uniquely possibly not on purpose. For 2 weapon the pipper (and the actual impact point) is first weapon on pipper and second weapon is one spacing downrange regardless of delivery method.
One weapon obviously is on pipper. 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12 are symmetrically distributed around pipper (any CCIP mode) as expected. For DTOS/CCRP/LADD it is first weapon on DMPI and the rest after.
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But N = 2, the pipper does not move at all! PUAC changes (presumably correctly).
That makes sense yes, think about it
1 Bomb –> bomb goes to pipper normally.
2 bombs --> pipper left in place, but first bomb will hit at (pipper + spacing) and second at (pipper - spacing).
3 bombs --> pipper will shift as now the pipper is telling when the 2nd bomb will hit. -
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The CCIP represent the center of the salvo. So with 4 bomb spacing 150ft, #1 is -300ft, #2 -150ft, #3 +150ft and #4 +300ft.
Nope
With 150 ft spacing and 4 bombs, 1st bomb is at - 225ft, 2nd is at -75ft, 3rd is at +75ft and 4th is at +225ft.
That makes sense yes, think about it
1 Bomb –> bomb goes to pipper normally.
2 bombs --> pipper left in place, but first bomb will hit at (pipper + spacing/2) and second at (pipper - spacing/2).
3 bombs –> pipper will shift as now the pipper is telling when the 2nd bomb will hit.That is what you meant, correct ?
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Nope
With 150 ft spacing and 4 bombs, 1st bomb is at - 225ft, 2nd is at -75ft, 3rd is at +75ft and 4th is at +225ft.
My bad ;).
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BTW IRL aligning on the runway in airfield denial with any sort of weapon like the BLU107 is suicide as the AAA will be expecting that sort of approach.
This is why:
- BLU107 are no longer used.
- In the past when BLU107 (and BAP100) was used, attack doctrine was to be not aligned with runway axis and to perform the pass with 20° - 60° offset with several aircratfs and different DMPIs.
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And by the way, when calculating the spacing, parkings and refueling/arming areas before (or after…) the runaway make for fine bonuses targets…
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If I dive towards the runway, pick the center of the runway, hold pickle then pitch up into a level flight. Would this change of attitude shift my initial aimpoint at the center of the runway? Or once pickle is pressed and held, that spot will be memorized and subsequent bomb drops will be calculated based off that spot?
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It worked quite nice in RL in iraq
But risk is high, so surprise is key here.
No it did not and aircraft were lost and pilots killed or captured, the technique that worked was LGBs from high altitude.
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This is why:
- BLU107 are no longer used.
- In the past when BLU107 (and BAP100) was used, attack doctrine was to be not aligned with runway axis and to perform the pass with 20° - 60° offset with several aircratfs and different DMPIs.
There were several weapons like the BLU107 used back in the day, its still a fun mission using them in the sim but IRL the LGB/JDAM etc does it better.
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+1…can’t remember the last time I used BLU-107s.
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That makes sense yes, think about it
1 Bomb –> bomb goes to pipper normally.
2 bombs --> pipper left in place, but first bomb will hit at (pipper + spacing) and second at (pipper - spacing).
3 bombs --> pipper will shift as now the pipper is telling when the 2nd bomb will hit.Something’s screwy. When weapons are rippled they are spaced so that their effects overlap suitably. The “oh here are two bombs, we’ll make the first one spot on and the next one one distance beyond” isn’t right. The center of the stick should align with the solution always, even if there are 2, 4, 6, 8, etc. bombs and no bomb will actually be at that stick center.
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Something’s screwy. When weapons are rippled they are spaced so that their effects overlap suitably. The “oh here are two bombs, we’ll make the first one spot on and the next one one distance beyond” isn’t right. The center of the stick should align with the solution always, even if there are 2, 4, 6, 8, etc. bombs and no bomb will actually be at that stick center.
Read what I-Hawk posted. With even number, the first half will fall minus the spacing and the last half at plus the spacing. That is, stick center is between the even number of bombs.
With odd number, the middle of the odd number will fall at stick center and the first and last remaining will fall at minus and plus spacing.
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Yeah, except it doesn’t for 2 bombs. With 2 it puts the #1 on DMPI and #2 off. It’s not center-stick to center-target. 4, 6, 8, 10 yes as expected but two isn’t following the pattern. Also CCRP/DTOS should align center stick to center target too I’m relatively sure. We’re testing with spacing 999’ just to make the effect obvious but in reality you’d use 50-75’ for Mk82. It’s still a rather compact boom-blob that you’d target at the centeroid of a target.
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If it only worked like it does in the sim.