Just an idea I wanted to bounce off everyone.
-
I am a fervent defender of sensory feedback to overcome the lack of sensation in the sim by compromising reality
But I’m not in favour of such acceleration indication in this case, because I don’t think it is relevant or helpfulFirst the acceleration is very subtle and yes a pilot would feel it and we don’t
but the cues are there. The refueller flies a constant speed, your acceleration cues are visual. It’s the tanker belly as said above
learn to fly formation and you won’t have issues on the tanker, it’s an experience and practice thing. Even with these accelerations cues, you’ll still need the experience and practice.
So in the end, IMHO what you ask isn’t useful because it replaces something that’s already there, and better placed because it is where you should look (the tanker).If you look at the bottom of that screen for these acceleration cues, no way you will connect, you will constantly oscillate
and for the reality pukes, when you crash in the BMS F-16 do you remove BMS from your harddrive because you died ?
Or do you go visiting the flight surgeon after an ejection?So reality isn’t fully applicable in a sim and must be compromized to get an experience which is then as close as possible to reality - even if that means sometimes doing unrealistic things
By the way, BMS F-16 is able to taxi in the grass, is that real?
-
@Red:
and for the reality pukes, when you crash in the BMS F-16 do you remove BMS from your harddrive because you died ?
Naaaaa that’s for noobs… I actually killed myself once
-
@Red:
and for the reality pukes
You are obviously talking about Dee-Jay!!!
My posts were in jest!!! Just sticking with his modus operandi!!
C9
-
@Red:
I am a fervent defender of sensory feedback to overcome the lack of sensation in the sim by compromising reality
But I’m not in favour of such acceleration indication in this case, because I don’t think it is relevant or helpfulFirst the acceleration is very subtle and yes a pilot would feel it and we don’t
but the cues are there. The refueller flies a constant speed, your acceleration cues are visual. It’s the tanker belly as said above
learn to fly formation and you won’t have issues on the tanker, it’s an experience and practice thing. Even with these accelerations cues, you’ll still need the experience and practice.
So in the end, IMHO what you ask isn’t useful because it replaces something that’s already there, and better placed because it is where you should look (the tanker).If you look at the bottom of that screen for these acceleration cues, no way you will connect, you will constantly oscillate
Red Dog is 100% right.
We could think that the idea is basically not bad. But as Red Dog pointed out, it will anyway remains nothing but visual cues which you already have by looking outside “padlocked” on the tanker.
Such “accelerations” is something in your pants that can’t be replaced by any visual cues. And about accelerations and you comparison with your experience in your car, you must know that it is not 100% the same because of the third dimension, and you can suffer from very strong sensory illusions, especially when focused on a leader or tanker and even more in the could.
One of the first thing I have been taught and the beginning of the flight training, is to NEVER trust your feelings/sensations. It might kills you.Auto-kinetic effect is one of those effects, but not the only one. -> Sensory illusions in aviation
-
@Red:
(…)
…and for the reality pukes, when you crash in the BMS F-16 do you remove BMS from your harddrive because you died ?
(…)
IMO even for a hardcore simmer (which I’m not ) it would suffice if you then removed the dead pilot from the pilots’ log and started a completely new one, regardless of the previous accomplishments of the killed one… I used to do it in one of the past Falcon 4 incarnates (BMS 2.0 + SP4.2 I think), but I don’t any more…
-
I agree with Red Dog and Dee-Jay.
I submit that the speed changes while in the contact position are so minuscule that the pilot would not sense them, except visually. For example - you’re at a stop sign or traffic light, and you let off the brake and your car starts to roll forward. Do you actually feel the acceleration?
I also have experience with sensory illusions. I was refueling a Hawg one day, and the horizon was totally obscured by haze. After about ten seconds of contact, my eyes and brain ‘told’ me that we were in a 45 degree dive. I checked my instruments and called the drivers up front to make sure we were in fact going straight and level.
-
bro, lock on to the tanker,get the airspeed and match it. simple.
-
and I’m going to poke the hive too-
YOU CAN’T FEEL THE ACCELERATIONS? why not, whats wrong with you? just joshing ya but just get on the stick. Anytime you feel the need to change an implement of anything because you’re not doing good at it at present it’s time to practice more. If you are having trouble in AAR, I would say, while you make valid points and I’ve read that elsewhere and seen this debate ( not my first sim community) and your idea of coming full circle and master it is adding more sensor feedback to help, then I have to encourage you in the seat of your pants like this…
I can hit the tanker in the turn at night one handed, whats wrong with you ?
-
bro, lock on to the tanker,get the airspeed and match it. simple.
Certainly not as simple and … not the right thing to do.
-
tankers always flies the same speed, so you don’t need to lock them to know. They fly 300 Kts in the racetracks with chiocks in tow
Beside you do not want to sterilize the boomer -
Not sure how many of you real drivers use the lights but most I refueled were looking up at me. The lights are good for some aircraft bad for others. It is set up for the B-52 for its receptacle position and pilots position. The F-16 B,D when in the envelope but high the lights are still green but in real life we are inch’s and I mean inch’s from the canopy. " Down, 5"…. It sucks when you have one who hangs high. Not a big problem with F-16 A,C Models. Night A/R with students down in Luke was not fun. Change of speed happens when the boom goes high and thus less drag and we speed up a little but slow as soon as boom goes lower again.
-
Thanks Boomer
Nice to get some personal insight.
Buy the way you didn’t act in a TV series as a cylon did you ? :uham:
-
If smart scaling is screwing you up then change the option for smart scaling. The visual cue is looking at the tanker out the window. I can tell to a quarter knot if I’m zero relative to the tanker by looking at him with my eyes.
-
Not sure how many of you real drivers use the lights but most I refueled were looking up at me. The lights are good for some aircraft bad for others. It is set up for the B-52 for its receptacle position and pilots position. The F-16 B,D when in the envelope but high the lights are still green but in real life we are inch’s and I mean inch’s from the canopy. " Down, 5"…. It sucks when you have one who hangs high. Not a big problem with F-16 A,C Models.
I agree for the most part. However, the PDI lights are set for the majority of larger receivers. They are in the center of the vertical envelope at -30 degrees elevation, which was also the trail position pre-contact. Fighter category aircraft, however, required a -32 degree trail and contact position, due mostly to the canopy, and the receptacle was installed to reflect that thought.
-
the AOA of AAR can be different for each aircraft, and the tanker will adjust accordingly. the tanker does not fly 300 IAS to tank f-15 220’s at 20k, that would cause POI’s and massive difficulty, so they go 315 to 325 depending on wind, though that’s probably not in the sim
You shouldn’t be in master arm hot near the tanker, and a quick buddy spike to establish IAS is just fine. there is no crew back there, thusly no worry of superpowers.
-
the tanker does not fly 300 IAS to tank f-15 220’s at 20k, that would cause POI’s and massive difficulty, so they go 315 to 325 depending on wind, though that’s probably not in the sim
therefore is irrelevant in light of this dicussion and the problem the OP tries to address
we’re not quite here to discuss the particularities of real refuel operations, but well the ones in BMS. An in that aspect, speed is always 300 Kts -
Interesting subject! Sometimes i feel something is missing when it comes to phiysical response in cockpit. For example: once we land the aircraft and start using the wheel brakes, it would be awesome if we could see our virtual chest and head go a little bit forward since this happens in real life, not too much, but it would feel more realistic. The smoothness when we touch down also gets me a little upset. I’ve been flying falcon for a few years and it would be cool to see some improvement regarding the physics in the game! BMS team is a beast!
-
in my experience in this sim the tanker is flying slower for hornets and faster for eagles(than 300ias) but that could just be my recollection , or that may have been something I fragged on accident.
-
This post is deleted! -
This post is deleted!