"Read The Manual" replies
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Also, there are tons of people here who are willing to help. But it’s not fair to be upset at them for expecting you to do a little work yourself. If you truly can’t find the answer to your question that is one thing, but if you haven’t even taken the time to look, don’t be surprised when someone says RTFM.
Let’s not forget that the “raison d’être” of the manual is also to help people. Back with 4.32, except the dash1, we had to refer 10 years old publication with a lot of stuff confisung for the users. the situation was even worse.
The 4.33 manual initiative was specifically made to help people get rid of that confusion and have information specific and relevant to the latest version of BMS.Of course you can’t really make a manual for BMS in 45 pages. There are so many things to cover that inevitably, the volume of the manuals will be important….
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Here is (another example) how “RTFM” (Read The Flight Manual) can help : https://www.benchmarksims.org/forum/showthread.php?26934-Navigation-Timing-carrot-lt&p=379474&viewfull=1#post379474
… is it a “jerk attitude”?
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This is a point that has been said many times in this thread (I woner how many forum-wide), yet it seems mislooked quite often, and that’s sad: the difference between ‘RTFM’ and ‘RTFM @page xx’ may seem small but it does all the ‘F’ing’ difference (‘F’ing’ as in ‘Read The Flight Manual’).
OP’s point is to find a solution to avoid the ‘RTFM’ answer, which is great. Just let me point out that I’m quite new here and so far every answer that I’ve seen has been ‘RTFM @page xx’-like, which is an answer with more quality than any of the alternatives we (myself included) have suggested. -
Thank you Serolrom,
This is at least the Dev and Mods modus operandi
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I’m a bit late to how this thread has developed so this might have been said earlier:
If all you can say in answer to a question is RTFM with no further clarification all YOU are doing is demotivating the guy asking the question, annoying folks who find this kind of response rude and increasing your post count.
If however you point the person to the area of the manual to read, or even just to the manual, then you helped. If you gave an answer and pointed to where you found it then you have provided the guy asking the question with a learning resource and hopefully motivated him to learn a bit more. Yes posting a link to a thread helps, but so too just saying that it has been asked before and suggestion what to search for.
Yes it is an buggeration when the same question keeps getting asked and apparently no attempt has been made to find an answer. Yes it is a pain in the arse when folks don’t use the search button but remember this:
A lot of folks posting on the forums aren’t native English speakers and may not understand what they have read (try reading a Mig 3 pilots notes translated from Russian to English via Google and you’ll know what it feels like). Also they may not be phrasing the question “correctly” sounding blunt or direct and as having not tried.
A lot of folks using the forums don’t know the correct TLA (Three Letter Acronym) or name for a function to be able to search for it.
Folks may not have the same standard or education as others or (like myself) be so old as to have nearly forgotten how to learn. Learning is a skill that needs to be practiced.
If new people can’t be bothered to learn then they will soon loose interest in BMS as you will never know it all and there is always something new to learn.
Basically if you can’t help; your answer isn’t going to further the guy asking the question knowledge then ask yourself if you should post at all or just move on to a topic of more interest to yourself.
Being on the forums isn’t a race to be the guy with the most posts after all it’s to share our enjoyment of BMS. -
I agree with you Tiffy.
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Pumpyhead,
You live up to the name……well.Hmmmm. Already with an ad hominem attack? My two year old son saddled me with that moniker in a fit of pique 18 years ago. Though admittedly an odd call sign, I think I’ll stick with it.
Be ye advised that when I did show up, my IPs did not simply say ‘RTFM, maggot’.
Neither did I imply they did. I did; however, imply that you would have been foolish to go to class without having been fully prepared by reading the manual.
I was confronted with stair step training, a logical way to get from point A to B and beyond. That’s how it works in the real world.
Indeed. Point A is usually read the manual.
I do not know exactly what abject lack of esteem has led to supporting the clubbing of baby seals for no other reason than ‘you can’, nor do I care. What I do know is that it’s truly your problem, not mine.
Perhaps you should go back and read what I posted. I do not support a “rtfm” approach in the least. What I do support; however, is a modicum of self help.
I believe you.
You are a jerk.
Congrats ?Dismissed.
Yet again with an ad hominem attack? That is usually a sign of someone without a tenable argument. Either that or someone unable to properly express that argument.
Good day
Sent from my HTC6500LVW using Tapatalk
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Have you been frustrated before by someone who gave you an RTFM line without further explanation ? i am asking because you are missing the point i think, you basically say the same thing that other were saying …. but you seem not to understand that there are two or three typed of people asking questions here.
Have you ever seen someone stating that he has read the manual, and that he doesn’t understand being told to “RTFM”?
All we are saying is that if you plan to use Mavericks for an example, read the Maverick chapter first and related chapters … and then ask how it works if you do not understand. Because most of the time people ask questions which clearly indicate they did not read the manual …
You are getting so emotional and hoped up … and please stop saying this is how it works in real life, because you are starting to sound like apart from you, no one has a clue how it works in real life. If you have a real life background in aviation, good for you, as do many other people here.
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Actually I think we are all basically saying the same thing, just maybe in different ways.
I don’t think any of the posts above disagree on the basic tenets of how we should operate on the forum:
We should treat each other with respect and courtesy; never just RTFM.
We should refer to specific chapters and pages of manuals; not spoonfeed.
We should understand if more help is needed; not everyone is fluent in English.
We should not post unless we have something constructive to say.As to the appropriate approach to learning to fly in BMS, everyone has different preferred learning styles. We understand that, we have only so much time however, so will never be able to cater to everyone. The format of the documentation included in 4.33 does at least give people a route to take from installing and configuring software and hardware, to ramp starting the jet from cold, to delivering munitions on target, to refuelling and recovering the jet safely. If you want to take it further then there are additional real-life manuals included in the installation and of course, the forum and information on VFWs who can provide additional online training and enjoyment.
If anyone wants more then by all means feel free to provide it and give something back to the community.
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Have you been frustrated before by someone who gave you an RTFM line without further explanation ? i am asking because you are missing the point i think, you basically say the same thing that other were saying …. but you seem not to understand that there are two or three typed of people asking questions here.
Have you ever seen someone stating that he has read the manual, and that he doesn’t understand being told to “RTFM”?
All we are saying is that if you plan to use Mavericks for an example, read the Maverick chapter first and related chapters … and then ask how it works if you do not understand. Because most of the time people ask questions which clearly indicate they did not read the manual …
You are getting so emotional and hoped up … and please stop saying this is how it works in real life, because you are starting to sound like apart from you, no one has a clue how it works in real life. If you have a real life background in aviation, good for you, as do many other people here.
Emotional ?
Over a flight sim ?
Well, I guess imagination does play a part here. Consider toning yours down, Spooky.While you are at it, smell what you are shoveling- this is a terribly immersive simulation to say the least. Imploring me to ignore ‘real life’ when it does not appear to suit you says far more about where you are coming from than anything else, and it ain’t exactly complementary. It’s the level of ‘real worldlyness’ that is astonishing. To be so accurate, and then to turn around and to be so immediately resistant to real world educational tactics techniques and procedures is baffling, to say the least. It’s not a pleasant smell at all.
As stated previously, I’ll take a look to see what you and Redshift are talking about, specifically noobs who can’t fly a pattern but decide asking questions about dropping LGBs without having bothered ‘doing their homework’ is the way to go.
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I believe you.
You are a jerk.
Congrats ?Dismissed.
I missed this this morning. In my book, this is an insult to a fellow user.
Apologies Pumpy.Think about it when you’re back Cyborgmudhen … in a month
and hopefully you’ll be less arrogant at the same time -
I purchased a new phone yesterday.
I couldn’t get NWS to work so I’m RTFMing, and NO its not a flight manual.
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I purchased a new phone yesterday.
I couldn’t get NWS to work so I’m RTFMing, and NO its not a flight manual.
Is it an iPhone? They tend to be a problem in case of deep stall.
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I think one important thing to point out here is the nature of the question as well. How exactly is the question phrased?
1. I want to drop bombs. How do I do this?
2. I want to drop those small bombs, I believe they’re called MK-82s? Or Rockeyes? I’ve followed the procedure detailed in [manual, page#] but for some reason, I can’t drop the bombs or can’t get to [specific parameter], what am I doing wrong?The first question clearly shows that the person has not RTFM, but would obviously benefit from being directed to the appropriate manual and page number. The second question greatly increases the chance of getting specific help and also shows that the poster has at least opened the manual and is trying to follow it, although unsuccessfully. Again, we must always remember that unlike RL where people do this hoping to make a living out of it, here, people do this as a hobby. If they have not RTFM, then let us encourage them to do so by pointing out where they should start looking and to tell them to be free to come back if they have more questions or if they don’t “find” what they’re looking for. Have you ever sat in a lecture about a topic so far above your head that when the lecturer asks “any questions?” you know you’ve not learned anything but you don’t know exactly where or how to ask questions? I would wager some of our new players feel exactly the same way. If they HAVE RTFM’ed, then obviously it is much easier to ask specific questions to try to narrow down the source of the problem.
Who amongst us here has learned solely by RTFM? Who amongst us here came into the community ready to answer any and all questions? Remember, we’ve all been newbies at one time or another, and if we are truly a member of this community, then we should be finding ways of paying it forward rather than arguing who does and does not deserve our help.
As for the new pilots following this thread, refer to the questions above and try your best to be in position #2 when you ask your question. I guarantee that your time here will be most productive and you will be helping others help you.
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I am going back and reading RedDog’s Training Mission Manual. It is really good. It even points readers to the relevant sections of the manual to read to get more detailed information. A very gentle way of saying RTFM.
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No harm in saying to Read The Fine BMS-Training Manual
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U can even say ArtyFM. Arty Fart Mode… :lol:
Old farts rule…
sent from my Xperia Z3 compact via TapaTalk
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I have spent five and a half years educating myself in Sweden to become the equivalent to a highschool-teacher and after graduating I have spent two years teaching. I know something about education even if its a relative small amount compared to my fellow colleagues, but it is definitly more then I know about fighterjets and milprocedures. I have read this with special interest.
I decided to try the method Bms devs suggests: Read the manuals and take the training TE´s. I picked the Nr10 of the trainingmissions in my test.
The manuals are very well written and go in depth on any thing you ever need to know about the practicals. Training TE´s is definitly the “syllabus” and if not spoon-feeding someone its shurely “holding someones hand” in the way it is explained, with words and pictures. There you will find your instructor, giving you the practical tips and guidence you then use to perform correctly. Reference:
Ofc I understand they come to the fighterschool with a huge amount of knowledge already acquired in aviation and mechs, physics etc. That is probably “the problem” some people face when trying to learn Falcon, but I dont think it is Falcon devs concern, to prepare people in those subjects. I was one of them that knew absolute zero about aviation or sims, when I decided to learn this sim. Still learning every flight after 3 years.In that video, Its clear they are given guidence from the instructors what to know and where to look for information and my point is that the Training TE´s makes a corresponding input in a passive, but nevertheless clear way.
So if any critique is valid, it is to maybe change the common response: rtfm and ride the TE´s to become: Ride the TE´s and when you need it, because you will; rtfm. RTFM=Read the flight manuals.
I think you have with, 4.33, done a very good job making shure Falcon BMS is, despite the amount of knowledge needed to become an effective fighterpilot, infact very welcoming and understandable with the “method” being presented. It is a good start on that goal of being Tom Cruise. The rest is up to the individual and whoever they decide to join with. A virtual wing is highly recommended for pleasure, immersion and knowledge.
/Jaws
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I Still learning every flight after 18 years.
A smarter man than I once told me an adage, about pilots. He told me that by 20 flying hours, a student pilot usually already thinks he knows it all.
He told me that by 200 flying hours, most pilots know they know it all.
He told me that if they survive long enough to see 2000 flying hours, most realise they will never know it all.
There’s always more to learn.