Having trouble with aerial refueling is this normal?
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Nice way to put it Blu3wolf.
If I’m right, prospective military pilots get a lot of formation work during their undergraduate training, so I daresay that in the RW, relatively tight formations are the norm.
Being able to move their aircraft in the vicinity of another quickly and stably scared the hell out of me the first time I refueled F-15s while deployed to Europe. The Eagle drivers were out of Bitburg AB. Each pulled up into pre-contact and stabilized about thirty feet back. When I cleared them in, it only took 'em about two seconds to move in, and I was a fraction of a second from calling for an emergency separation when they stopped ‘dead in their tracks.’
Still and all, they practice formation flight for tens if not hundreds of hours . . . but then again, it’s a big part of their job, so they have no choice but to learn it.
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Im jealous! That would have been quite the sight….
Your understanding meshes with mine - formation is a base, and core, skill, one that is practiced constantly. The first part of fighter training (after AHC) is BFM, and its explained in terms of how its like formation flying. I would probably say they practice formation flight for pretty much their entire career, on the majority of flights - right up until you start leading flights. The basic unit of fighter operations is the element after all… and half the pilots in an element are actively flying formation.
I know my own formation skills could use more practice than they get, and I would consider them above average for BMS pilots.
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As it’s talked very much, in real they say it’s easier. We lack the physical sense of speed.
The problem is not really the “sens of speed” per say.
- The main problem is the flight control accuracy (there is a different with the REAL FLCS, a ThrustMaster COUGAR with FSSB or FCC mod, and a 10$ joystick … difference also concerning the course of the throttle)
- The other problem is lack of perspective (3D) and this is what you maybe mistaking with “sens of speed”. But this is compensated by the brain quite rapidly.
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BTW … do it visually. Once in pre-contact, do not (never) refer to HUD’s indication. Forget about speed and altitude, attitude … etc … your new reference is the Tanker. The Tanker ONLY!
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Well in my case at the beginning was the stick, when I made the stick force sense my throttle pod has spikes and I must make it a hall sensor mode.
So aar is still a no go.sent from my Xperia Z3 compact via TapaTalk
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@Red:
and don’t curse on
“cowbow1-1 heads up tanker is entering turn”In time, like me, you will Revell in the tanker turning even when in the process of connecting.
No question, Aerial refueling is the toughest challenge in this sim…keep at it brother.
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Swift_Wings, I wonder what’s your background regarding simming? Have you played Allied Force or the original Falcon 4.0? Just referencing your other threads, it seems to me that you’re approaching this sim with expectations set a bit too high. No offense meant, but under full realism settings, the game is challenging even just keeping formation. A-A refuelling was easier on 4.32 due to the “tractor beam” effect, but you still had to make it to connect to the boom for that effect to kick in. With 4.33, this effect is now less noticeable, if at all, and even those who can A-A refuel in 4.32 had to “re-train” themselves to adapt to 4.33. Just giving you an idea of how challenging it could be.
However, don’t give up on it! Practice, practice, and practice! I couldn’t refuel for the longest time, but as soon as I was able to connect for a minute or two, that proved to me that I can do it. Eventually, I would fire up the A-A refuel TE just to relax. Sounds funny, doesn’t it? Well, to connect to the boom, you have to relax. Wiggle your fingers, wiggle your toes. Breathe. Relax. Otherwise, you will tense up and PIO (pilot-induced oscillation). So I had to relax. Once I was connected to the boom, I had forced myself to relax and refuelling was like the reward for it.
fyi code is unchanged in this area between 4.32 and 4.33
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fyi code is unchanged in this area between 4.32 and 4.33
in 4.32, once in contact position, I remember there was a stabilizing effect, which dissapeared in 4.33.
I know you are part of the DEV team so you should know better, but that was my personal experience ingame. -
fyi code is unchanged in this area between 4.32 and 4.33
Boxer has stated otherwise on this forum, I am fairly certain.
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Try talking to yourself.
Really.
Say, while watching the lights…Forward light is yellow, “littttlllle poweeeerrr”; Drifting left, “eaaaazzzeee righhhhtttt”.
Seemed to help me when I transitioned to the Hornet refueling; Viper didn’t take too long, but the Hornet had me cussing. Perhaps because I’ve got this thing sticking in my face to distract me. Dunno.
Wife thinks it’s cute I talk to my computer. And practice.
Some sticks seem to be better for this than others too. I use a CH stick due to overall quality, but, I had a Logitech G-something that, while not as well made, had a little pressure point just off center that made small corrections easy. The CH, to me, is easier to over-control with. But I use it anyway due to the aforementioned quality.
BMS Falcon Is Never Boring
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fyi code is unchanged in this area between 4.32 and 4.33
Yep, as what others have said… less tractor beam effect in 4.33.
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Get in the pit and throw this baby around, push it to the max, master the fm and then refuel is not so bad, also and most important, get your stick set up the way you like it and make sure it feels good and then stick with it, you’ll do just fine.
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The “help” one gets refueling is unchanged between 4.32 and 4.33u1 for when the tanker is in a turn. There was a small change for straight and level though…the degree of help is dialed back a bit in 4.33 relative to what it was in 4.32. The reason this was done, if memory serves (it’s been a while), is because we have testers who do AAR evolutions in real world pointy nose jets who provided feedback that it was too easy to hang on to the boom once plugged in relative to their experiences flying behind wings-level tankers.
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Now try it in the Hornet…way harder for me so far.
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The “help” one gets refueling is unchanged between 4.32 and 4.33u1 for when the tanker is in a turn. There was a small change for straight and level though…the degree of help is dialed back a bit in 4.33 relative to what it was in 4.32. The reason this was done, if memory serves (it’s been a while), is because we have testers who do AAR evolutions in real world pointy nose jets who provided feedback that it was too easy to hang on to the boom once plugged in relative to their experiences flying behind wings-level tankers
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oh yeah i remember we did that…
well 4.33 is so outdated that i had to ask my gran ma for it
sorry for my misinformation, my memory betrayed me
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My advice for tanking is don’t try and connect to the boom yourself (when in the Viper). Put the gun cross on the tip of the boom and creep up to pre-contact. Then move up until the lights go out and be patient. Wait for the AI to bring the boom to you. Don’t keep making corrections trying to get contact. The AI does better if you are stable. A little trim makes the tanking in a turn much easier. And for all your power setting changes make small incremental changes. For example, add power, then bring it back to where you had it and wait to see the change. If not enough, add a little power and bring it back to where you had it. Keep doing that until in position. If you throttle up and don’t back off almost immediately after you will usually overshoot when you are that close in to the tanker.
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^ Exactly what i meant with “walk on throttle” couple posts earlier.
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oh yeah i remember we did that…
well 4.33 is so outdated that i had to ask my gran ma for it
sorry for my misinformation, my memory betrayed me
Aha!! I now have proof of 4.34!
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BTW … do it visually. Once in pre-contact, do not (never) refer to HUD’s indication. Forget about speed and altitude, attitude … etc … your new reference is the Tanker. The Tanker ONLY!
[
l]( l)Formation sight picture!!! Totally agreed Dee-Jay, this is actually the best tip anyone has given for tanking!! Forgot the rest, maintain the sight picture and all the issues go away!