BVR combat in 4.33.1
-
FYI, no matter what your speed is, if you are BVR’ing at only 20 000 ft, you’re doing it wrong.
To be fair though, maybe you just finished a surface attack or something else and are at 20K. F-16s do more than just A-A so they can’t hang out up there all the time like F-15s :D.
-
from reviewing a lot of ACMIs I have seen that an AMRAAM that “falls” on the target has the probability of a miss. Be that ground clutter or limited maneuvering or just the in-game missile behavior
And IRL lofting an AMRAAM at FL350 can make the missile go so high that systems inside freeze(i read that somewhere or heard it,dont remember.could be BS)
And RTR is a sure kill, no matter what. -
And RTR is a sure kill, no matter what.
I took rtr to imply that if the target turned “once” and ran you’re “guaranteed” a kill. But like all things A2A, nothing is so straight forward.
-
And IRL lofting an AMRAAM at FL350 can make the missile go so high that systems inside freeze(i read that somewhere or heard it,dont remember.could be BS)
I call BS indeed.
And RTR is a sure kill, no matter what.
Again, RTR is based on assumptions… namely target turns away and burns while staying at the same altitude. If the target dives to the ground, those assumptions are off…
-
…… namely target turns away and burns while sayting at the same altitude. If the target dives to the ground, those assumptions are off…
That explains why it’s called RTR instead of RTDWR (Range Turn, Dive, Weave and Run).
-
How can old Mig 17 and 19 without RWR know a missile is launched at them BVR as they turn away?
AI knowns all
-
Both the MiG-19 and MiG-17 had a Sirena type RWR/RHAW system from the start……whether or not they could actually detect an AMRAAM radar is probably a question for a different forum.
-
Both the MiG-19 and MiG-17 had a Sirena type RWR/RHAW system from the start……whether or not they could actually detect an AMRAAM radar is probably a question for a different forum.
Do you have sources for this ? Mine seem to indicate that the Sirenas were fitted on MiG-17s at factory only beginning with the PF variant.
Anyway, the RWR on a MiG-17 should only detect emissions coming from the rearward hemisphere, so even if we supposed the Sirenas could detect AMRAAMs, it would not enable the pilots to know when to turn away.
-
Do you have sources for this ? Mine seem to indicate that the Sirenas were fitted on MiG-17s at factory only beginning with the PF variant.
MiG-17 (Yefim Gordon, 2002 )
Fresco A i40, Sirena-2 RHAW (initially refereed to as a tail protection device) with characteristic antennas on the fin/stabilizer fairing and the wing leading edges and wingtips to give 360 degree coverage.MiG-17 Fresco Walk Around No.46 (Hans-Heira Stapfer, 2007)
Shows close up photos of the antennas and states the system was added on the MiG-17 Fresco A late in production and was standard on MiG-17F Fresco C. All Fresco As were retrofitted with Sirena via a field modification.A SIRENA RWR was actually exploited during HAVE DRILL in the 60’s on a LIM-5 (MiG-17F) Fresco C (1C-07-18 built in Poland 1956-7)
-
Interesting, thanks.
-
Clearly launching the 120-C from 32k provides kills far more often than at 20k. F15C at 32k can down any red fighter@l3crusader:
FYI, no matter what your speed is, if you are BVR’ing at only 20 000 ft, you’re doing it wrong. Try 30 000 or 35 000 ft with loft, the missile will have much more energy and really “fall” on the target.
RTR assums the target do not change altitude. If your friend turns and runs to the deck, there is a good chance he can escape RTR. But he’s pretty much out out the BVR fight anyway.