Axis saturation
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Just a quick question. I’ve been practicing my Air to Air refueling, and have my pitch and roll axis saturation set to MED, is it easier to have saturation higher or lower for AAR? My main problem is porposing on approach to the tanker and having to break off or create a large jet fuel fireball when I collide with the tanker.
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I have no saturation set.
The key …. sorry to say … is stop proposing. Just don’t do it.
Very, very small, controlled stick movements. At, say, 1nm a 5 - 10 foot excursion is trivial. Can’t even see it. When you’re really close those very small changes look big.
If you get in to PIO … stop throwing the stick around, reduce throttle and back out. Stabilize, reset and drive forward slowly.
Remember that with more throttle you will go forward (good) AND up (be prepared). With lower throttle you will fall back and go lower. Anticipate those changes.
Finally, gun cross on the tip of the boom and drive straight forward to follow the lights. Don’t ‘flinch’ when the boom approaches the canopy; the boom driver will lift it over you. Lights off = stop flying; you’re in position, just wait.
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The best is with no saturation and the most linear curve you can get in the joystick. The F-16 computers have built in settings that adjust based on what you are doing. So best to have 0 unless you have a horribly messed up stick, in which case you’ll have problems even with the saturation messing it up. There is an article on this website that explains it all. Turn off the HUD or don’t look at it, all of that info changes and will throw you off if you try to fly a certain speed or bank while trying to connect, all of that can change with the wind.
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Question about AAR (and general flying of the viper): do people use rudder? Even when I had pedals, I tended to use rudder for ground ops only.
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Rudder is only used when you want to purposefully do an uncoordinated turn. The F-16 manuals say don’t touch it especially on crosswind landings, just crab and land firm. You wouldn’t want to mess with rudder while getting tanker gas, the Aileron-Rudder-Interconnect does the rudder for you automatically to keep the turns coordinated.
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…you have to use rudder to crab.
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Question about AAR (and general flying of the viper): do people use rudder? Even when I had pedals, I tended to use rudder for ground ops only.
I use the rudder all the time - most people here seem deathly afraid of the rudder, but I use it a LOT when I’m below about 200 knots in a turning fight…mainly to break AOA and get my nose down. It works, you just have to go out and free-fly a lot and learn what the airplane can really do, as well as read the book. You’ll find there are places where you can throw the book out if you develop your skill(s) sufficiently. After that it’s up to your judgment as to how to employ them.
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Just a quick question. I’ve been practicing my Air to Air refueling, and have my pitch and roll axis saturation set to MED, is it easier to have saturation higher or lower for AAR? My main problem is porposing on approach to the tanker and having to break off or create a large jet fuel fireball when I collide with the tanker.
If you have a good stick, you shouldn’t need to set saturation. My understanding of what the in-game saturation setting does is make it so you can max out a specific input even if your stick / throttle doesn’t go that far. I think this is left over from bad sticks and worse calibration in Windows 95. For instance, imagine you have a stick that at full deflection right only registers as 80% deflected right on the axis screen in Falcon, so you can’t roll right at the Viper’s usual snappy rate. You could set a saturation on the stick axis which would make 80% be read as 100%, so you could then get sick doing crazy fast rolls to the right. With modern sticks and calibration, this should really never be an issue. What you’re doing setting a saturation might actually be making it worse, by compressing the useful throw of the stick.
What you might be looking for is a custom axis shaping. I found that for my X-55 having a very, very slight s-curve in my axis, meaning that (guessing on the numbers here) the first 5 degrees of stick movement lead to only 4 degrees of aircraft movement helped with AAR.
Also, make sure you have your speedbrake out and speedbrake in bound to separate buttons - I found it very useful being able to add or remove just a little brake and keep the throttle set rather than chase the throttle around. That being said I’m still hopeless at AAR. -
Question about AAR (and general flying of the viper): do people use rudder? Even when I had pedals, I tended to use rudder for ground ops only.
It’s not needed in any phase of normal flight (including landing or AAR).
However, as Stevie points out, there may be ‘edge cases’ where it can be useful …. low speed nose authority to precipitate a snap shot is the about the only one I can think of.
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It’s not needed in any phase of normal flight (including landing or AAR).
However, as Stevie points out, there may be ‘edge cases’ where it can be useful …. low speed nose authority to precipitate a snap shot is the about the only one I can think of.
Not just the only one, the PRIMARY one…if you aren’t using your rudders and you’re below 200 to 250, you ain’t fighting. Not really.
That said, I also use them at 400 when I’m low leveling at 300 feet and need to hustle around a corner. As previous - each pilot has to feel out the airplane and figure out what works and what doesn’t for themselves and their own abilities.
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I’ve tried applying rudder to slip to land, but it doesn’t give quite the desired effect. Probably not modeled for it.
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Rudder in, wing high…on speed?..
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Not just the only one, the PRIMARY one…if you aren’t using your rudders and you’re below 200 to 250, you ain’t fighting. Not really.
That said, I also use them at 400 when I’m low leveling at 300 feet and need to hustle around a corner. As previous - each pilot has to feel out the airplane and figure out what works and what doesn’t for themselves and their own abilities.
I’m pretty sure if the SOP for flying the Viper IRL was to not use the rudder in the air, then the pilot wouldn’t simply do it because it suits them…
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Not just the only one, the PRIMARY one…if you aren’t using your rudders and you’re below 200 to 250, you ain’t fighting. Not really.
That said, I also use them at 400 when I’m low leveling at 300 feet and need to hustle around a corner. As previous - each pilot has to feel out the airplane and figure out what works and what doesn’t for themselves and their own abilities.
Remembrr that at 30 deg AOA The Rudder has zero effect even if you pedal is full , the flcs prevents you to use it, it starts decreasing at 20 deg Aoa and zero at 30
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Remembrr that at 30 deg AOA The Rudder has zero effect even if you pedal is full , the flcs prevents you to use it, it starts decreasing at 20 deg Aoa and zero at 30
I find it has lots of effect…if you over-bank and stomp bottom rudder to kill the AOA…which is what I do, mostly.
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I’m pretty sure if the SOP for flying the Viper IRL was to not use the rudder in the air, then the pilot wouldn’t simply do it because it suits them…
Yeah…I’ve heard that from a few RL pilots…
…I’ve heard more RL pilots say they fly their own fight, though. I’ve also spent a lot of time watching pilots do things they don’t realize they are doing because they are trained to focus on other tasks. So you have to take “SOP” as applied to RL operations with a grain.
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…you have to use rudder to crab.
Not exactly, the jet crabs itself. You just apply rudder to track the centerline after touchdown while applying opposite aileron. Yes, you land in a crab.
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Not exactly, the jet crabs itself. You just apply rudder to track the centerline after touchdown while applying opposite aileron. Yes, you land in a crab.
…not the way I fly. But then maybe I tend more to slip and not crab…and I like to land with my HUD caged.
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I find it has lots of effect…if you over-bank and stomp bottom rudder to kill the AOA…which is what I do, mostly.
Mav-jp is somewhat correct, but his numbers are little off. You aren’t getting as much effect as you think you are (unless BMS isn’t modeled correctly).
In CAT I, max rudder deflection starts to become limited at AOA > 14 degs. or Roll Rate > 20 degs./sec and reaches zero authority at 26 degs. AOA (I believe 25.8 degs. to be exact).
In CAT III, max rudder deflection starts to become limited at AOA > 3 degs. or Roll Rate > 20 degs./sec and reaches zero authority at 15 degs. AOA.That’s besides the point. Make sure your jet is perfectly trimmed up (ball is not slipping). You should approach at a walking pace and approach slower than you would expect. Then just stabilize and let the boomer do the work. Trust me, the sim is not difficult at all when doing this. BMS should make it tougher when tanking with a -135 and give the effect of getting tossed around by the wake.
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See how saturation works in BMS.
(quoted from BMS-Manual 4.3.7 CONTROLLERS page - Advanced options)It makes your joystick more sensitive.
Also I advice you to disable deadzone because it will make response delay when you transit from pitch-up to pitch-down and vice versa.
So both setting would not be suitable for AAR.