Seriously impressed!
-
I completely sympathize with the annoyance of initial BMS setup. It is a royal pain in the butt. I wish everyone who was interested in BMS could sit down at a computer with a complete setup so they could discover what the post-setup BMS experience is. That should give either the motivation to endure the process of setting up their computer to use BMS or save them the time if they don’t like the experience. Out of the box BMS is practically a pile of parts instead of a working whole. They can be assembled but it takes an investment of time and effort. I wish it wasn’t so but that’s just how 18 year old software utilized on a wide variety of hardware for a wide variety of user preferences is.
-
The 5 hours was not set up in the sim, that time was spent getting the right program (torrent) to allow me to download the program, unzipping, install, and a host of other things. Plus the restarts required to get everything set. So no, the 5 hours mentioned was not setting up within the sim, sorry I didn’t clarify.
So you’ve not spent any time setting up the sim yet. Expect 2-3 hours, depending on your setup or desires. It’ll get easier once you get used to where things are located in BMS.
-
I completely sympathize with the annoyance of initial BMS setup. It is a royal pain in the butt. I wish everyone who was interested in BMS could sit down at a computer with a complete setup so they could discover what the post-setup BMS experience is. That should give either the motivation to endure the process of setting up their computer to use BMS or save them the time if they don’t like the experience. Out of the box BMS is practically a pile of parts instead of a working whole. They can be assembled but it takes an investment of time and effort. I wish it wasn’t so but that’s just how 18 year old software utilized on a wide variety of hardware for a wide variety of user preferences is.
I understand the frustration someone can get with “the dance,” but surely, someone does not jump from Ace Combat to BMS? The people who find out about BMS through the “normal” channels come from other sims, where setting up of controls is already part of the process? There will be the odd one or two that find a YouTube video and explore what BMS is about, but the OP is not one of those as he has come from AF. Surely he has had to set up his controls in AF? Maybe less so than what you need to set up in BMS (ie, DTC, MFDs, etc.) but there is a setup process nonetheless.
-
I completely sympathize with the annoyance of initial BMS setup. It is a royal pain in the butt. I wish everyone who was interested in BMS could sit down at a computer with a complete setup so they could discover what the post-setup BMS experience is. That should give either the motivation to endure the process of setting up their computer to use BMS or save them the time if they don’t like the experience. Out of the box BMS is practically a pile of parts instead of a working whole. They can be assembled but it takes an investment of time and effort. I wish it wasn’t so but that’s just how 18 year old software utilized on a wide variety of hardware for a wide variety of user preferences is.
Understandable. Sadly, the UI in particular does feel old now, but it’s all I’ve ever known. Falcon’s UI has had many facelifts over the years but it is on the same old framework. It’s what we’re used to and love
I don’t think the Falcon dance these days is difficult at all - BMS 4.x is the easiest Falcon dance I’ve ever known, and I remeber the days of installing Falcon 4, 10.8, SP4, BMS1.03 etc, testing it at each stage, running F4Patch with the right settings. CTDs were a frequent thing.
BMS4.33 is very easy to set up relative to the past, but I do agree that it would be frustrating to a new user compared to a ‘modern’ sim. By modern, I mean the likes of DCS where it has been written from the ground up within the last 10 years. Falcon, is pushing nearly 20, and lets not forget BMS is 100% free. Whilst I’ve been in and out of Falcon for the last 10 years, often with very large gaps with it not even being installed (5 or 6 years was the record! ) it is still familiar to me so I have an advantage over newbies, granted. The new folder structure has improved things massively also. WDP and third party apps are a two sided coin to me. Now, I couldn’t really be without them, but it does introduce even more to learn. It makes things harder and more overwhelming at first but makes flight planning and mission building easier once you’re comfortable with it.
I feel bad for being so condescending to the OP earlier in this thread. I honestly thought you were just being troll or just very disrespectful but now we have more information
-
Falcon BMS 4.3x is hard for newcomers?
Perhaps.
But do not mix bad design with complexity. Falcon BMS 4.3x is IMHO well designed, but it is also very complex. I don’t see DCS or IL-2 BoS (haha!) or IL-2 CloD (hahaha!) as better designed. Of course, DCS A-10C is running fine out-of-the-box but only if you are Thrustmaster Warthog owner. If you want to fly Mustang or Frogfoot or other AC and/or you do not own TW then you have to spend some time for set it for yourself.
If you don’t like to edit DTC for yourself or play with weather maps or do any other BMS exclusives then stay with Falcon 4.0 or Allied Force or whatever you like. But if you want to invest some time on tuning then stay here and ask for help if you need some. For sure you will get the answers.
-
I completely sympathize with the annoyance of initial BMS setup. It is a royal pain in the butt. I wish everyone who was interested in BMS could sit down at a computer with a complete setup so they could discover what the post-setup BMS experience is. That should give either the motivation to endure the process of setting up their computer to use BMS or save them the time if they don’t like the experience. Out of the box BMS is practically a pile of parts instead of a working whole. They can be assembled but it takes an investment of time and effort. I wish it wasn’t so but that’s just how 18 year old software utilized on a wide variety of hardware for a wide variety of user preferences is.
Sorry but I disagree entirely
With the exception of people having a real cockpit to interface with , I don’t think BMS setup needs anything special
It is ready to use out of the box. I install fresh BMS nearly every month for obvious development purpose , here is what I need to do
- put -nomovie in shortcut
- select proper GfX resolution
- select multisampling 2
- select joystick
- assign correctly antenna , range , micro stick axis
- set up AB threshold
- apply reverse antenna axis
- shut down UI music
- click mouse to pan view
- use TIR Z axis
Launch cougar profile 100% set up in DX with only real functions assigned
Enjoy BMS
It takes me less than 5 minutes from installation complete and fully ready to fly
How hard is that ?
There are so many sims out there that need addons for everything , aircrafts , maps , campaigns etc etc… Hundreds of hours to DL addons and install , some of them not compatible etc etc… And you tell me BMS install is difficult ?
Stop joking now please
-
My doctors recommended I do a new hobby, learn a new language, or anything else that would help the wires in my brain to reconnect, and start growing new pathways. I chose Falcon 4 because I had flown Falcon 3 a couple decades earlier. I have the book for F4AF, printed cheat sheets with the keystrokes listed, and I printed out chapters so I could carry them with me to read when my wife would be driving us somewhere. Mostly to learn about the flight characteristics, weapons, electronics, avionics, etc…maybe I didn’t do my due diligence on the new system, but I have read just about everything I could get my hands on for F4AF. My “issue” is that my short term memory is very short, I get frustrated very easily, and as I said earlier, my mouth starts moving before my brain starts thinking.
BMS will definitely get those neurons rewired. Effectively operating the jet means keeping 3D situational awareness, operating dozens of controls, monitoring jet systems, interpreting sensor data, making rapid tactical decisions with many unknown variables, and communicating well with your flight. It is truly challenging but also very rewarding.
I can appreciate your frustration with getting things set up - Mav has had the benefit of doing this hundreds of times, but the first few are challenging. You’re wrestling with an interface that’s almost old enough to vote. I would strongly recommend downloading a pre-made X-52 profile and using it as DX programming will drive you nuts, and the SST software is as likely to blue-screen your computer as to work. This one looks pretty good. Look at the BMS-Manual.pdf in your Docs folder - it covers the way the interface works. For your controls start with page 39.
You can use the mouse wheel to change the field of view to make the HUD and MFDs bigger. TrackIR will allow you to look around by moving your head. It does a great job increasing immersion and increasing your combat effectiveness. The version 4 hardware is less expensive and works fine, but both version 4 and version 5 are available used on eBay.
While reading the manual is helpful, it’s hard to get context for what they’re describing sometimes. Watching videos is a fast and more engaging way to learn the basics and you can fill in the details with the manual later (also having the info presented multiple ways may be helpful as you’re recovering from your injury). Krause has done a series of excellent videos for 4.32 and most of the info is still correct for 4.33. Just remember, it’s “Am-ram” not “Aim-ram”Best of luck with your recovery and welcome to Falcon BMS!
-Rabbit
-
This sim is self vetting…so it may be with the OP among hundreds of others.
It is not our function to convince you to invest. Either you are worthy or you are not.
Get on the stick.
-
It takes me less than 5 minutes from installation complete and fully ready to fly
How hard is that ?
For some people what you list might as well be how to land on the moon. If they install and press first thing instant action and press the trigger on their joystick they expect bullets to come out the front. If it presses DMS down instead they think of the software as a failure.
That it might take you or me 5 minutes to do what is needed means nothing because it took us 5 years to learn what 5 minutes worth of things to do. If I sat down and watched you take BMS from an installer .zip to flying and I asked at every action “why did you do that?” “how did you know to do that?” and “why did you not do this?” it would fill a novel I’m sure.
Other flight sims like IL-2, FSX, DCS, etc. are not too different but just like us they are old too. Instead of thinking how an IL-2 player would approach BMS think how someone who has only played Overwatch or Assassin’s Creed before. They key controls were written on stone tables and given in a guided tutorial or possibly just plugged in an Xbox controller which was auto detected. Think about how many gamers have never changed a default keybinding in any game in their life. How does that prepare them for the open-ended “devise a control plan that selectively puts some of these 500 possible callbacks onto your controller”?
I told an 18 year old high school student who is in AP classes to “edit the .txt file” but they did not know what a file extension is. And how would they if Microsoft hides it by default the entire duration of their lifetime? In the same way I do not know how to nail a horseshoe onto a horse I respect that people are a product of their upbringing both in knowledge and expectations.
“May you will fly the first day, maybe not” and “You need to make a plan for how your controller will translate into the airplane controls” are going to be very new concepts for lots of people.
-
Pretty much the reason i sought out a cougar.
-
So you’ve not spent any time setting up the sim yet. Expect 2-3 hours, depending on your setup or desires. It’ll get easier once you get used to where things are located in BMS.
I didnt download and try to fly the sim without doing anything else first. I went through a normal setup like any other game, graphics, keystrokes, etc. it took quite a bit of time to go through the key log. So no, I didn’t spend 5 hours setting up the system but I did spend time.
My key stroke editing didn’t work at all. I went back through it later and still couldn’t get the keystroke setup I wanted. So I will have to learn a new set of keystrokes. As for a complete setup, I understand things take time, trial and error, that kind of stuff. Although flares and chaff on the second trigger position is rather ingenious.
I look forward to reading everything I can. Although I’m not a computer programmer I’ll try to get into the locations I’ve been told to check out.
Thanks Ice -
I feel bad for being so condescending to the OP earlier in this thread. I honestly thought you were just being troll or just very disrespectful but now we have more information
I’m not in forums enough to understand what a troll is, however, Harry Potter comes to mind.
I have found out what trolling is now. Sorry about being confused, I couldn’t understand why I was being called Shrek.
I am not, nor have I ever intentionally been, or done a troll. -
I went through the comments to my rant fairly quick the first time around but am reading them closer now. Thanks for telling me where to get the manuals I will need. I’m not sure how long your manuals are,m but I usually print out a chapter at a time so I can go back for quick reference.
-
Long. And when you’re done, you wish they were longer.
-
For some people what you list might as well be how to land on the moon. If they install and press first thing instant action and press the trigger on their joystick they expect bullets to come out the front. If it presses DMS down instead they think of the software as a failure.
That it might take you or me 5 minutes to do what is needed means nothing because it took us 5 years to learn what 5 minutes worth of things to do. If I sat down and watched you take BMS from an installer .zip to flying and I asked at every action “why did you do that?” “how did you know to do that?” and “why did you not do this?” it would fill a novel I’m sure.
Other flight sims like IL-2, FSX, DCS, etc. are not too different but just like us they are old too. Instead of thinking how an IL-2 player would approach BMS think how someone who has only played Overwatch or Assassin’s Creed before. They key controls were written on stone tables and given in a guided tutorial or possibly just plugged in an Xbox controller which was auto detected. Think about how many gamers have never changed a default keybinding in any game in their life. How does that prepare them for the open-ended “devise a control plan that selectively puts some of these 500 possible callbacks onto your controller”?
I told an 18 year old high school student who is in AP classes to “edit the .txt file” but they did not know what a file extension is. And how would they if Microsoft hides it by default the entire duration of their lifetime? In the same way I do not know how to nail a horseshoe onto a horse I respect that people are a product of their upbringing both in knowledge and expectations.
“May you will fly the first day, maybe not” and “You need to make a plan for how your controller will translate into the airplane controls” are going to be very new concepts for lots of people.
The more I read you , the more I disagree
Ok sorry I thought we were talking about simmers , not gamers.If people come here to complain because instant action does not work like Arcade mode of their iPhone plane game , sorry but they just landed at the wrong address.
Seeing the extreme level of complexity that BMS is all about , they way this is designed and set up is VERY easy , no serious simmer will say the opposite !
Did you ever try to built a TE in DCS ? Would you then tell me that BMS UI is so old that it makes things hard ?
That is all bullshit . Please don’t let the mediocrity of our current society spread into our sim world ,
NO, FLYING A F16 IS NOT PLUG AND PLAY , takes years to master in real , so should take years in sim as well.People need to realize that , instead of bitching about BMS design. this is not OUR fault if flying a f16 is more complex than assassin creed Xbox game.
There are plenty of plane games out there for this kind of audience , but please stop bitching at us because of those guys !!
Seeing the level of complexity of BMS , I would say the Design and simplicity of install and setup is amazing !!
PS : once again I never ever touched the keystroke , I will repeat it again and again and again , touching the keystroke is the biggest mistake that a newcomer may do !!! Amazingly this is the first thing they do . You are right here , we should change the UI design to prevent people from doing it.
NEVER TOUCH THE KEY-FILE WITHOUT HAVING A REAL GOOD REASON
-
I didnt download and try to fly the sim without doing anything else first. I went through a normal setup like any other game, graphics, keystrokes, etc. it took quite a bit of time to go through the key log. So no, I didn’t spend 5 hours setting up the system but I did spend time.
My key stroke editing didn’t work at all. I went back through it later and still couldn’t get the keystroke setup I wanted. So I will have to learn a new set of keystrokes. As for a complete setup, I understand things take time, trial and error, that kind of stuff. Although flares and chaff on the second trigger position is rather ingenious.
I look forward to reading everything I can. Although I’m not a computer programmer I’ll try to get into the locations I’ve been told to check out.
Thanks IceBIG MISTAKE
First thing is to open MANUALS before even launching the simYou don’t event know how the countermeasure system works , what a DTC is or what CMS is all about and you complain about chaffs / flares on trigger.
NO , trial and error is NOT THE WAY TO GO , doing that in real would kill you.
If you really want to fly a f16 , take the Advice of a 30years experienced simmer : DIVE IN MANUALS first ,
we spent hundreds of hours to write them in a way a non engineer can read them (because in real , most of pilots have high degree of education…)
Second piece of advice , in case you missed it , NEVER EVER TOUCH THE KEYSTROKE , You really don’t need it !!!
Sorry if I sound harsh , but think about a real instructor would say if you jump in a f16 without reading the manuals and start trying reprogramming the f16 avionics because you don’t like the general dynamics Hotas setup !!!
-
Can’t agree more.
that’s the reason why we like to say that this is not a game, but a sim
Contrary to a game, the sim needs a lot more of education and needs an audience that is more patient and willing to learn.
If you approach BMS with a gamer point of view, you will be disapointed and frustrated, because it’s simply not meant to be.
If on the other hand you approach BMs like a complicated sim where you will learn new things for the next two decades, then you will immensely enjoy the sim.but doing the second approach requires patience, dedication, will to learn and sacrifice.
this topic is very much an illustration of this.
A guy approach the sime just like any other game, gets frustrated and confused. Complain about it here. Gets a first troll reaction then luckily get explanations from the guy having been through that same route before.
Will the OP be able to see the mindset required to continue with BMS? I think so, but future will tell. -
First thing they teach you in college now. “Google before you ask”.
The manual in BMS is there is for a reason. It’s actually very well written. Although BMS doesn’t have a step by step tutorial like DCS there are training manuals that take you step by step along the way. For sim you have to learn how to fly the plane correctly before jumping into the action. Best approach is to pretend that you are a real F-16 pilot in training. Do they let you jump into instant action and start shooting or do they make you understand how to fly the F-16 first?
-
I think something is forgotten along the way. Spending hours, days, years to learn is what makes the simulator fun and satisfying. I liked to set my HOTAS to be a good compromise between reality and effectiveness. I liked to read, try, learn and fail because I have a feeling of self-progression, and most of all, the feeling there is a still a lot of room and time to improve. I’m not doing it because it is how the job is supposed to be done. I already have my lot of that every day. If “bad sides” are nothing more than “bad sides”, then I suppose we already all have our own to deal with.
If, or as soon as, BMS is not a source of enjoyment anymore, it should be let aside for some time. And certainly not be a pretext to yell at the team.
OP, taking this opportunity to suggest that you link your apologies on top of your very first post. New readers miss them, and they’re worth the read.
-
Just in case you missed it
My “yelling” is not at all against the OP , how could he know without us telling him.
It was more against experienced BMS users saying that the OP was right and suggesting BMS design is shit because not usable by a arcade gamer.