Flight model / Overspeed issue
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It could be that movements that are apparent in the cockpit are too small to be seen from a distance.
For example - if you see a formation of F-15s from the ground, all you see are airplanes that appear to be rock steady. However, during my boomer days when refueling said F-15s, they were constantly shifting a few inches in all six axes. Also, I easily saw minute movements of the horizontal stab, and even movements of the air intakes.
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Okay, thanks for the information but with orbit camera I mean something like third person, looking at my very own F-16 that I am under control of. I thought at first, that the “overspeed wiggle” in the 3D-Cockpit is just for show but thats not the case because as soon as you switch to third person you can actually see the F-16 wiggling before it stabilize itself a few seconds later. And I am talking about pretty hefty left and right movements here. Feel free to try it yourself. Just fire up the first training mission, hop in the F-16 and go full afterburner till you hit Vne. You will experience some decent turbolences and FLCS warning messages. Don’t forget to switch to third person, when the jet starts to wiggle.
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Okay, thanks for the information but with orbit camera I mean something like third person, looking at my very own F-16 that I am under control of. I thought at first, that the “overspeed wiggle” in the 3D-Cockpit is just for show but thats not the case because as soon as you switch to third person you can actually see the F-16 wiggling before it stabilize itself a few seconds later. And I am talking about pretty hefty left and right movements here. Feel free to try it yourself. Just fire up the first training mission, hop in the F-16 and go full afterburner till you hit Vne. You will experience some decent turbolences and FLCS warning messages. Don’t forget to switch to third person, when the jet starts to wiggle.
Your problem sounds similar to this:
https://www.benchmarksims.org/forum/showthread.php?t=29200
Consequently, you’re not alone with this.
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Your problem sounds similar to this:
https://www.benchmarksims.org/forum/showthread.php?t=29200
Consequently, you’re not alone with this.
Willing to bet this is exactly what he saw. Duplicate-able with multiple blocks of aircraft and while carrying no stores what so ever thus removing LCOs as a possible cause. The problem has been around for years but apparently isn’t drawing much interest of fixing. Most of the time I’ve seen the people in the know just blame LCOs and walk away.
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Your problem sounds similar to this:
https://www.benchmarksims.org/forum/showthread.php?t=29200
Consequently, you’re not alone with this.
Many thanks! Apparently, I forgot to add “wobble”, one of the most important keyword, while looking for a thread similar to my question :rolleyes: Anyway, case closed. Known bug and no fix in sight, got it.
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How many fps do you have when happening ?
It can come from two things
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the RK4 algorythm needs more cycles at high speed for proper convergence (which can be a problem if your fps are too low )
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the torque coefficients are coming from nasa wind tunnel testing at Mach 0.6 while the FLCS is the real one. THis is normally not a problem since the FLCS rules the pitch roll yaw before the aerodynamics . HOwever There is a possibility that the real flcs gains could need modification to take care of that at very high end of the flight envelope
I think (1) is more probable
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How many fps do you have when happening ?
It can come from two things
-
the RK4 algorythm needs more cycles at high speed for proper convergence (which can be a problem if your fps are too low )
-
the torque coefficients are coming from nasa wind tunnel testing at Mach 0.6 while the FLCS is the real one. THis is normally not a problem since the FLCS rules the pitch roll yaw before the aerodynamics . HOwever There is a possibility that the real flcs gains could need modification to take care of that at very high end of the flight envelope
I think (1) is more probable
I have locked my frames via Nvidia Inspector at 60 and I’ve got V-Sync activated. Just tested it again - constantly 60 FPS.
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How many fps do you have when happening ?
It can come from two things
-
the RK4 algorythm needs more cycles at high speed for proper convergence (which can be a problem if your fps are too low )
-
the torque coefficients are coming from nasa wind tunnel testing at Mach 0.6 while the FLCS is the real one. THis is normally not a problem since the FLCS rules the pitch roll yaw before the aerodynamics . HOwever There is a possibility that the real flcs gains could need modification to take care of that at very high end of the flight envelope
I think (1) is more probable
Post #44. I disproved it being simply low FPS over 3 years ago. My testing showed that the worst situation for me getting that uncommanded roll was between 50 and 110 FPS.
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I get it without v sync at like 90 fps, since U1 at least and I think 4.32 as well.
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Okay, thanks for the information… Don’t forget to switch to third person, when the jet starts to wiggle.
Question has to be - you’re in a training mission, learning to fly the jet. You’ve exceeded Vne, and you are experiencing a less than happy jet giving you feedback, to which you have to react and correct your error. Why would you want to switch to a third person view? You’re here to fly and fight, not look at the pretty views!
Bugs like these don’t bug me (see what I did there?) in the slightest. If it were up to me, I’d disable all external viewpoints once airborne, period. I am happy to concede they have their uses during a ramp start, etc. but after that…
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Question has to be - you’re in a training mission, learning to fly the jet. You’ve exceeded Vne, and you are experiencing a less than happy jet giving you feedback, to which you have to react and correct your error. Why would you want to switch to a third person view? You’re here to fly and fight, not look at the pretty views!
Bugs like these don’t bug me (see what I did there?) in the slightest. If it were up to me, I’d disable all external viewpoints once airborne, period. I am happy to concede they have their uses during a ramp start, etc. but after that…
Yeah, you are right. But switching to third person is not just for the view It magically fixes a FLCS problem that occures in 3D-Cockpit only. I assume, that the rudder of a real F-16 would not go cazy when Vne is achieved.
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Yeah, you are right. But switching to third person is not just for the view It magically fixes a FLCS problem that occures in 3D-Cockpit only. I assume, that the rudder of a real F-16 would not go cazy when Vne is achieved.
So that means it’s fps related as I said before , though a combination of both could be possible
Reducing rudder gains at very high speed would solve it for sure.
Do I want to alter the real FLCS ? Not sure about that
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I assume, that the rudder of a real F-16 would not go cazy when Vne is achieved.
You certainly have no idea about that. Very bad things can happen above Vne , there is a reason this is called Vne !
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You certainly have no idea about that. Very bad things can happen above Vne , there is a reason this is called Vne !
I am aware of what can happen beyond Vne, but I did not mean talking about damage or turbolences. I am talking about the ingame Fly-By-Wire code itself. I am pretty confident that there is no code that says: “Oh, you’re past Vne? Lets shake dat rudder!” The rudder could get damaged due to overspeed, sure. But why would it fix itself when switching views and is functioning perfectly fine at lower speeds? If the FLCS were to counter turbolences, then why would it stop doing that in third person? I think, that this behavior in BMS is a bug (obviously) and as you said, it can be fixed. I agree, messing with the FLCS may not be in everyone’s favour.
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Very easy fix … disable the external views key mapping.
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You would think the point taken would be that there could be a bug with the way the flight controls work, given the obvious disconnect between two different views. Especially seeing as how changing the view should not affect the aircraft controls whatsoever.
It is not in keeping with the benchmark attitude to suggest just not looking at a bug, rather than contemplate fixing it.
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Oh here we go again
Jp didnt say he wouldn’t look at it he just needs to be sure it is not a fps issue and from his testing he knows what is more likely is all he said
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With All Respect Ninja, I was responding to DJ.
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[EDIT] I completely misread the post above and consequently answered inconsistently with what was posted.
My apologies to Blu3wolf. [/EDIT]
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Really? This is what you gather about the Benchmark Sims attitude?
What is wrong with ppl?? Blu3Wolf was simply responding to DJ’s post:
Very easy fix … disable the external views key mapping.
Just like he said:
With All Respect Ninja, I was responding to DJ.
And now people are assuming/accusing him of something he was NOT inferring!?!??!?!?! WTH :rolleyes:
C9