Dud bombs - parameters and detection?
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…“random” = “modeled”…all goodness!
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, but from what I read in the forums many folks seem to operate way too fast and furious…
Because we don’t feel the pain for pulling high G!
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Because we don’t feel the pain for pulling high G!
… but breathing mask sounds gives you feedback. And it is also displayed on the HUD
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…“random” = “modeled”…all goodness!
Relax, it’s just that to me, it doesn’t mean the same things. Just language barrier probably.
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Relax, it’s just that to me, it doesn’t mean the same things. Just language barrier probably.
…still - all good!
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Because we don’t feel the pain for pulling high G!
Like they always tell me - “you have to fly the numbers”…and ignore other things that might be going on. When I first started I couldn’t maneuver to fight without the blackout model taking me out of the fight. Now I hardly ever get it, and when I do I’m usually able to relax my pull enough to get my “G-tolerance” back to baseline.
Just takes discipline and practice. But mostly discipline, IMO.
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I flew my first MP last night. Very simple OCR sortie, no threats 2 ship - me as lead. What was interesting was that because I was flying with another real person (and admittedly not under pressure of threats), my pulls were much more gentle 2 - 3 G on average rather than my usual bank and yank. Much better flying experience and smoother. I think the old F4 flight model was so much more forgiving and hence gave me bad habits and bad muscle memory and now it is a case of relearning.
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In RL, yes - an over-speed may affect the armament/fuse rigging…“may”. So hopefully, this is randomized in the sim. The G limit is usually for safe sep, and mechanical loading on the rack, so yes - in RL even a momentary over-G may affect rack operation…again, “may” depending on severity.
I haven’t RTFM enough to find operational limits for specific loadouts for BMS, but from what I read in the forums many folks seem to operate way too fast and furious…
Looking at my Wolfpack Weapons Guide (albeit from 1987) the carriage limit (think speed limit) for weapons on TERs is 550 KIAS and if parent mounted to a MAU it’s 600 KIAS. The same speeds apply to release parameters with the exception of Mk-82 Snakeye that has a hard release limit of 500 KIAS because of the fins (they break). Both the Snakeye and BSU-49 (Mk-82 with balute) on TERs have a very slow Jettison limit of 300 KIAS due to safe separation of the TER from the jet. Maybe Seek Eagle (or whatever they call it these days) came up with higher numbers.
To piggyback on your observation about relaxed release parameters by players, I too see a lot of youtube videos of what we in RL would call “gross buffoonery.” Or perhaps they’ve taken the mantra “Steep, Fast, Press” to the extreme. Very long times on final with the target in the HUD then suddenly pulling Gs while trying to release a bomb throws all computed goodness of the jet out the window. You’re not bombing, you’re flinging sh*t pretty much like a monkey throwing his own crap at zoo visitors…it might feel good and you just might hit your DMPI (but RL physics suggest otherwise). Rolling or asymmetric Gs while releasing would risk getting a hung bomb catching on a lug, but if it comes off then the rolling G ruins your azimuth. Generally speaking about low altitude pop-up attacks, if you spend more than 5 seconds coming down the chute after you roll-in (wings level with the horizon, 1 G, +/- 5 degrees of planned dive angle) then you need to switch to a standoff delivery (DTOS) or pull off dry and re-attack or perhaps use medium altitude deliveries above the tactical range of AAA.
Break Break…
rmax what’s an OCR mission? Offensive Counter ______ eh I got nothing from the recesses of my memory.:?
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So is overspeed more of an issue in dudding bombs than pulling +5G’s for sustained periods?
@RhoBee thanks for sharing your real-world experience. It’s always interesting to read!
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It would be nice if there was a Falcon (sim) reference for recommended tolerances for the different munitions. I am working on a spreadsheet to help me with my loadout choices and I’d sure add that to the sheet if I could find the info.
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What I’d like to see (are you listening, devs?..) is the operating limits for a specific load out appear on the Loadout page as you are loading out; both admin limits AND the limits for each individual store. Don’t care if it’s RL or BMS numbers…but we should be able to find the number somewhere. Not sure if they belong in the -34 or not…I’m thinking there is probably another pub…-34 not being the end-all.
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"I too see a lot of youtube videos of what we in RL would call “gross buffoonery.”
Thanks for the chuckle RhoBee… made my day.
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So is overspeed more of an issue in dudding bombs than pulling +5G’s for sustained periods?
I wouldn’t say that. I was only an A model guy, but generally speaking bombs could be dropped at up to +5.5 Gs and up to an extremely uncomfortable -2.0 Gs. It may not be intuitive, but bombing accuracy is degraded as G load increases.
Getting a dud could be a result of several things, like not having enough time for the fuze to arm, selecting the wrong fuze (between Nose or Tail) for the weapon, the bomb case failing/breaking on impact. Airspeed limits for carriage and release have more to do with safe/clean separation from the jet so you don’t get a hung bomb or a bomb that bounces off a wing tank, ECM pod or another part of the jet. It may very well be that a certain bomb could be consistently and safely released at the speed of heat, but it was never tested. A High Drag weapon would probably dud if released too fast because the fins or balute failed when they deploy.
So…in RL being on parameters when bombing is considered a source of pride if you will. When reviewing your HUD tape in the debrief the whole flight gets to see your parameters. Pilots in the debrief look at pipper placement, time on final, airspeed, dive angle, altitude and G at release, the pull off to avoid the frag, did you switch from A/G mode to A/A mode coming off. The tape doesn’t lie.
I have some squadron standards from the Dark Ages of my A model days with canned (meaning previously tested/practiced) low level pop-up attacks. I’ll post them somewhere (is there an appropriate Forum Topic) unless they’re already on this site. FWIW while low level flying is an absolute hoot, around 1990 the tactical air forces (TAF) meaning PACAF/USAFE/TAC came to embrace medium altitude ingress/attack/egress. In Korea (30 years ago) we had pre-planned Day 1 attacks that were all planned at medium altitude (a non-specific description, but think above 10K’ AGL).
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Thanks for the chuckle RhoBee… made my day.
Thankfully the tapes of my gross buffoonery no longer exist, or the statute of limitations has expired.
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I haven’t RTFM enough to find operational limits for specific loadouts for BMS, but from what I read in the forums many folks seem to operate way too fast and furious…
This brings to mind the song “That’s where the fun is…”
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This brings to mind the song “That’s where the fun is…”
But I also recall a warning not to look it in the eyes…!