Cougar Throttle question
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Ok this is a question based on my ignorance but I just was wondering. Bear in mind I do know things but am not as computer smart as some of you adepts here. Let me just say first that I already have a very fast PC here in 2017 that is only almost a year old. i7 Plasma core cooled with 32 gig RAM and a simple Gforce 980 TI with 4 gigs of DDR. So this PC plays DCS and Falcon completely maxed out while it naps. I have a Warthog with MFG Crosswinds. The TrackIR v5 and head phones too. But…. I did stumble across this Cougar that is advertised in super Mint shape. The guy talked with me over the phone and he believes he only probably played his cougar system about 19 times. It is like new condition. “time will tell” So his price seemed fair and since you can’t get these anymore I jumped at it so I could have a F16 lay out for Falcon BMS right…?..
1. Is it possible or has anyone ever taken a Cougar throttle and got it to plug into the PC by itself to function much like the Warthog throttle?
Just seems like a clean idea to unplug my Warthog throttle and if there was or is some kind of PIN to USB converter to plug this Cougar’s throttle in since the sticks appear to be the same.I have windows 10 and I have a feeling that if I plug the cougar in it will be identified and play without too much gripe. One guy had a good suggestion here about plugging in the Cougar to a 2.0 USB as opposed to a 3.0 and that also makes sense since the cougar is older and part PIN.
Has anyone ever tried this with the throttle to a Cougar?
I wonder what Thrustmaster would say?I have a feeling I know what my answer will be but I just wanted to fish with this a little bit since the world is a pretty big place and I see guys here ripping apart their stick systems from time to time.
Thanks
Please over look my ignorance. -
1. Is it possible or has anyone ever taken a Cougar throttle and got it to plug into the PC by itself to function much like the Warthog throttle?
Just seems like a clean idea to unplug my Warthog throttle and if there was or is some kind of PIN to USB converter to plug this Cougar’s throttle in since the sticks appear to be the same.In case you don’t know, you can’t connect the Cougar throttle alone. The throttle is connected to the stickbase which is connected in USB. So you do need to connect both
unless…you either need electronic bagoo to convert one using a LeoBodnar Bu0836 for instance.
That’s a small PCB where you’ll reroute all buttons and program them DX rather than TM software. The PCB being USB, the throttle becomes then standalone
Or
You can buy A TUSBA from Realsimulator which allowws you to connect the Throttle into the Tusba and the TUSBA to USBWith both above possibilities (non exhaustive) the throttle becomes standalone a la warthog throttle (which is native USB)
I have windows 10 and I have a feeling that if I plug the cougar in it will be identified and play without too much gripe. One guy had a good suggestion here about plugging in the Cougar to a 2.0 USB as opposed to a 3.0 and that also makes sense since the cougar is older and part PIN.
Has anyone ever tried this with the throttle to a Cougar?Cougar works fine on Win10 with either USB2.0 or 3.0 (Stick + throttle)
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Hi Dragon -
I went the Realsimulator TUSBA route to fly the Warthog stick and Cougar throttle. Works like a charm! But bear in mind that some pots of the cougar throttle might have some issues even with a mint Cougar simply due to the age of the device ( cursor drift of the radar stick, antenna pot spiking).
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Alright… Thanks very much for the reply Red Dog. Very cool! Yeah… I saved the link for that converter tool in the event I want to take that route. The way I see it , the sticks are the same Warthog/Cougar, so maybe … just maybe I will order one more of those Monster Tech aluminum mounts for the throttle and park it side by side of my Warthog and just apply that. Or have two sticks and two throttles side by side mounted, but that seems too much since the joy sticks seem exactly alike.
All I am really focused on with the Cougar is the throttle configuration for the F16 of course.
That device looks like it is from the UK eh?
Or… hey … what if I plug both units from the Cougar in and just keep my Warthog throttle in!? Then I could have the Cougar and then if DCS comes out with that Hornet or I need a twin engine the Warthog is still plugged in by itself. Duh…
I’m a dumb dumb… ;p)Thanks again sir. You’v been Helpful mate!
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Yeah… I know… ;p)
The chance I take when buying something like this. Perhaps they could be sprayed out a bit? We’ll see what it does first. I was thinking a bit of the opposite here… what if… I take the Cougar and Cougar’s stick and plug it in and then keep my warthog throttle plugged in? Same thing only a bit reversed. It seems like the sticks on both units are the same. This guy tells me he only used his Cougar about 19 or 20 times and it’s like new… So I am taken a chance. The odds look good.
To be continued…
Yeah… Keep my Warthog throttle plugged in and connect the full Cougar? But I do like that TUSBA! Still might do that. Then just switch out between the Warthog/Cougar throttle.
;p)Marc
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I’ve done this a couple ways - using the RealSim TUSBA R2, which is way cool gadget and works great.
But before the TUSBA was released I took a Cougar TQS and converted it to standalone USB operation (direct plug) using a Bodner BU0836A board:
http://www.leobodnar.com/shop/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=94&products_id=204
Not a difficult conversion once you realize a couple things: 1) the TQS switches are already wired internally in matrix fashion; 2) that matrix is easily accessible at the TQS J2 connector. You can simply remove the stock cable(s?) and wire in the Bodner there; I noodled out the circuit myself. I did mine rather sloppily with a soldering iron, and I plan to go back and re-do using proper Molex connectors now that I have a crimper and have converted some TM MFD bezels with it.
This also gets you the upgrade to a 12 bit resolution TQS, which I’ll stack up against any Hall pot conversion any day…maybe it would be even better if I did that too, but as good as it is now, I don’t consider it worth the effort. Anyway, now I can just plug this TQS into anything - PC or Mac - and use it…but I use it mainly with Mac FAF, and my TUSBA with Win 7.
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Hi,
Arend and Uri on vipercore.nl (FCC home) are creating another solution for the standalone Cougar TQS.
It is near to be released.
FYI, also a solution for FCC3 on the Warthog base.
Cheers -
…yeah - there’s good stuff coming!!!
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A hall sensor solution would be nice. The USB with TUSBA is already very good.
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You can also build a TQS adapter yourself if you are up for it.
You need an Arduino pro-micro/micro some basic soldering skills and some basic components.All the plans are on the git repo.
https://pit.uriba.org/tag/tqs/Arend’s upcoming TQS adapter (still to be named) is basically a custom PCB based on this design. Plus he had designed an enclosure for it… so it actually looks like a proper product
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The Bodner solution is faster/easier than Arduino as it’s pretty much a drop in…but Arduino would give one more leverage to programming onboard functions - if one requires such.
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I did Uri’s adapter and it works great. Very easy circuit and soldering and super-cheap! Bodnar is much more expensive. For that just use Tusba
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I seem to recall paying more for my TUSBA R2 than my Bodner board(s) (I bought three…) but maybe they’ve gone up since I bought mine. I can attest that both solutions are great, and each has it’s place (I’ve mounted my Bodner inside the TQA base, and other than the USB cable being grey instead of black you couldn’t tell it wasn’t made that way)…I’ll also probably buy Arend’s new TQS adapter too. At this time I’m not sure just what/which I’ll use in my pit, though - probably something other than a Bodner, but still with modifications…which is why I’ll collect and try them all.
I may end up wiring direct into a Pokeys…for both my stick and throttle. Not sure yet, but it’s an option.
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Same here. Still to test the hall potentiometer I have with those choices to see in what it works best
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Arend’s/my TQS adapter are more along the TUSBA spirit, rather then bondar board flexibility.
Yet tailoring a controller for a specific task allows you to do some voodoo level stuff.
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I’m not totally sold on Hall pots…yet. I’ve seen such a big improvement just by increasing the bit resolution of the throttle input that it’s one or the other for me…my guess is that if you do both it will be a wash, and I’m more for the higher resolution. I’ll have to do something “fancy” though, as I have to adapt whatever I do to a real throttle arm.
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I’m not totally sold on Hall pots…yet. I’ve seen such a big improvement just by increasing the bit resolution of the throttle input that it’s one or the other for me…my guess is that if you do both it will be a wash, and I’m more for the higher resolution. I’ll have to do something “fancy” though, as I have to adapt whatever I do to a real throttle arm.
Hall sensors only give you better output consistency over time. they will not “add resolution” on their own after all
AFAIK, some hall sensors will even limit the available output range even more.i.e if you use 180 deg HS on the throttle which travles about 60 degrees (66 of the real thing) you automatically cut your available voltage range by 66%.
using a 90 degrees HS will do better. then if a pot goes from 0V to 5V, HS usually only go 0.5V to 4.5V, 20% off right there…so HS is useless unless you have a device that will boost the actual sample resolution (my favorite is a 4$ 12bit ADC). but with all those losses, you pretty much remain on a 10bit total effective resolution (which is good enough).
I found that the total loss of resolution due to range on the TQS with original pot is about “500 units” out of a 4096 12 bit (so “0.5bit”). Because of this I opted to “upscale” the result back to full 12 bit rather then cutting it down to 11 bits (2048 values)
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Great info uri_ba, thanks! All I can add is that using a 12 rez Bodner with the stock TQS pot is a huge improvement…the combination seems to mate up just right. Same probably holds for the TUSBA, and your adapter by design.
I’ll have to actually mount my throttle arm (I have the whole assembly - friction plate and all) and then see just how I’m going to have to connect things up mechanically to get the full RW throw at the handle. But it’s sounding like once I have a 12 bit A/D it won’t matter if I use a Hall pot or not (if I do I’ll probably look for an automotive one), which is what I was feeling anyway…so I only need choose one that covers my range of throw nicely. We’ll see what happens once I get that far!
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Thanks uri_ba! I also think TUSBA is already a big step forward. I’d still like to upgrade to a hall pot later on. But just replacing the original one - not fancy new constructions with levers etc. Unfortunately there doesn’t seem to exist such a potentiometer.
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Hey there… thanks for the info. I also want to ask… remembering years ago my Cougar when we had them running Windows XP I remember some of my cougar buttons wouldn’t program or acknowledge. Now with the Cougar even being older but now as we run Windows 10 or maybe Windows 7, I’m thinking mostly 10,… Does all the functions or buttons program and work with you guys here?
No signal problems?
Thanks
Marc