Some questions about Mavericks
-
This post is deleted! -
The only battery in the Maverick is a one time use chemical-thermal battery which is activated on launch. Mavericks are powered by the aircraft’s electrical system through an umbilical cable before launch. The time limits are generally because the Peltier cooler for the IIR sensor is moving thermal energy from the seeker area to the rear of the missile in a thermal buffer. The longer this goes on the larger the thermal difference and the harder the cooler has to work until it can’t keep the sensor properly cool and the picture whitens. With the missile powered off this heat dissipates into the environment and resets. I’m sure there are other considerations on longevity, but finite battery power is not one.
As I understand it every single F-16/AGM-65 operator on the planet does a ground check/bore and then turns the missile off for takeoff which among other motivations checks if the missile even works at all. If it takes 5 hours of preparation to save 1 second in combat then you do those 5 hours of preparation. There is no “why bother” in professional air forces. Ground align against a 3,000’ distance reference object when missile and TGP are 10’ apart laterally gives 3 mil precision in alignment. You can always check and improve on it in air given the opportunity but if not then you’ll be glad to have the ground alignment as backup.
EO power gives power to all inventoried missiles simultaneously. The three minutes time starts for all missiles simultaneously and they provide video automatically at the end of those three minutes with master arm in SIM/ARM, WPN format displayed, and that missile selected. If the pilot wishes to bypass the timeout for that particular missile sooner than 3 minutes (e.g. missile was briefly powered off a short time ago and so is still spinning-cooled) the pilot uses the uncage button.
I’m guessing GND JETT ENABLE switch does more than just allow ground jettison. My estimation is that GND JETT ENABLE simply forces the WOW switches to report the in-flight condition with all of the changes that implies. This would explain a lot of things like how it starts the DWAT timer and allows Maverick video, etc.
-
This very well could be the result of “after the fact engineering” It may have nothing to do whatsoever with power, or existing WOW functionality. It’s not uncommon for a contractor to look at a requirement that might say “Operator must be able to deliberately enable or disable XYZ functionality” and the contractor says “hey, why don’t we just tie it to ABC switch instead of adding another one in…shouldn’t effect anything else and accomplishes the requirement–now charge the Government an extra 100k for our engineering genius breakthrough…” Not saying that’s the case here, I have no idea, but my point is not to get TOO wrapped up around the WOW functionality as it is commonly understood.
My thinking is that you have to do it to override the safety and be able to blow the dome cover…or even worse, to apply power to the station in order to power up the weapon at all…which in the case of forward firing is a strict no-no on deck!
-
The only battery in the Maverick is a one time use chemical-thermal battery which is activated on launch. Mavericks are powered by the aircraft’s electrical system through an umbilical cable before launch. The time limits are generally because the Peltier cooler for the IIR sensor is moving thermal energy from the seeker area to the rear of the missile in a thermal buffer. The longer this goes on the larger the thermal difference and the harder the cooler has to work until it can’t keep the sensor properly cool and the picture whitens. With the missile powered off this heat dissipates into the environment and resets. I’m sure there are other considerations on longevity, but finite battery power is not one.
As I understand it every single F-16/AGM-65 operator on the planet does a ground check/bore and then turns the missile off for takeoff which among other motivations checks if the missile even works at all. If it takes 5 hours of preparation to save 1 second in combat then you do those 5 hours of preparation. There is no “why bother” in professional air forces. Ground align against a 3,000’ distance reference object when missile and TGP are 10’ apart laterally gives 3 mil precision in alignment. You can always check and improve on it in air given the opportunity but if not then you’ll be glad to have the ground alignment as backup.
EO power gives power to all inventoried missiles simultaneously. The three minutes time starts for all missiles simultaneously and they provide video automatically at the end of those three minutes with master arm in SIM/ARM, WPN format displayed, and that missile selected. If the pilot wishes to bypass the timeout for that particular missile sooner than 3 minutes (e.g. missile was briefly powered off a short time ago and so is still spinning-cooled) the pilot uses the uncage button.
I’m guessing GND JETT ENABLE switch does more than just allow ground jettison. My estimation is that GND JETT ENABLE simply forces the WOW switches to report the in-flight condition with all of the changes that implies. This would explain a lot of things like how it starts the DWAT timer and allows Maverick video, etc.
…this - and some of what was noted in the previous handbook citation - are a lot of the reason I believe “ripple fire” of Mavs is totally bogus. From the book citation I don’t believe all weapons on a station (unless a single rail is mounted) are powered at once - only the one selected and under the hammer. And then there’s this -
“NOTE: When the inventory on any weapon station is changed, all AGM-65 will power off. The pilot must put power on the missiles and wait for the 3-minute timeout.” The inventory changes every shot…but it says “any weapon station”…so that holds for any weapon fired?
Which leads to believe that at best…if you are REAL good and REALLY fast…you can only fire one every 3 minutes. One weapon, one boresight, one shot…lather, rinse, repeat.
-
Mavericks are definitely powered on globally, spinning gyros and cooling seeker as necessary. The video is standby (black) until needed. Normally video is only available for the missile selected and ARM/SIM but video can continue in the background if the first missile is locked and a second missile is selected and using the WPN format. I don’t know if video is always available internally to the missile for tracking purposes (the airplane only seeing black) or if there is no video anywhere if missile video is in standby. Considering the A-10 lists different idle times for video showing and video standby I’m guessing it’s the latter.
Maybe some countries did not elect to pay for the feature of simultaneous ready Mavericks or some airplanes cannot support the same but the F-16/USAF can. I’ve never heard of mixed ready/not-ready Mavericks ever. If you could share the passage of the book that makes you think that that would be interesting.
You can bore non-IR Mavericks on the ground through the clear covers with some image distortion. The covers are only removed with Master ARM so you’d use SIM on the ground. If using IR Mavericks (or otherwise opaque covers) you’d need Master ARM to remove the covers before any video was usable for any purpose.
-
I know of a platform that operates as I describe, and I also know a bit about the missile…and I can’t see how you could “ripple” a triple rack even if you did power them all up at the same time. Not with any expected accuracy, anyway. Unless they were LMAV…you don’t have to boresight LMAV.
…all of a sudden I can’t recall how we did things on Harrier…but if it was as I suspect then there’s two platforms I know of. But neither use triple trees - only the single rail.
-
Oh LAU-88, yeah no ripple within the same launcher. Only 3/9 paired stations. I don’t know the AV-8B at all but if you’re telling me minimum time between two Maverick launches was several minutes color me surprised. I could see the Harrier able to individually power stations because it’s light loading made use of asymmetric configs but the inability to power two missiles at once, wow.
-
Why would you want to BSGT on ground?
It’s easier to find some city near your target with some buildings that looks “odd”. Then you place target steer point on it and you can use it for boresighting. It’s a lot faster and easier than BSGT on ground.
If you don’t have such steer point you can use FCR to find some city near target.
Macieksoft, I agree in part, except for we Carrier-types. We don’t have handy cities on ingress because we’re over water until close to the enemy coast. So, I would prefer doing it on deck. I would easily have time while the INS completes alignment. The problem is, the TGP won’t time in soon enough.
It may be “cheating”, but is there something in Config. that could be changed? I know there’s one for Mav boresight time. -
There’s power application and then there’s weapon time in after selection/under trigger. The Harrier only uses TERs, so no LAU-88…one weapon per station on a rail like every other USN/USMC platform. And yes - one side then the other in the firing sequence. But even though all stations apply may apply power at once you still need to let the station time in after selection…which happens in about the time it takes to re-attack, so it’s not really a factor other than one pass/one shot.
The previous F-16 citation implies to me that only a single weapon on a LAU-88 is timed in on MAV selection - so at most if you are loaded symmetrically you get two at the ready, one on each side. But the citation still says “3-minutes on inventory change”…which implies 3 minutes between shots. Which again may not be a factor if your ROE is one pass/one shot.
-
Macieksoft, I agree in part, except for we Carrier-types. We don’t have handy cities on ingress because we’re over water until close to the enemy coast. So, I would prefer doing it on deck. I would easily have time while the INS completes alignment. The problem is, the TGP won’t time in soon enough.
It may be “cheating”, but is there something in Config. that could be changed? I know there’s one for Mav boresight time.One suggestion I’ve heard is to power up on the ramp. After launch, fly out x miles, then turn back to the ship and use the boat as your boresight target. Turn the Mavs off and continue the mission from there.
-
One suggestion I’ve heard is to power up on the ramp. After launch, fly out x miles, then turn back to the ship and use the boat as your boresight target. Turn the Mavs off and continue the mission from there.
A_B, I have tried orbiting the Boat until TGP times in,which impeded achieving correct TOT(even with TGP powering on deck). However, your post gave me the idea of flying out toward Waypoint 2 until everything powers in, then turning back to the Boat just long enough to boresight. Then, power down the Mav’s until Fencing. I’m going to try that tonight.
-
.
You can bore non-IR Mavericks on the ground through the clear covers with some image distortion. The covers are only removed with Master ARM so you’d use SIM on the ground. If using IR Mavericks (or otherwise opaque covers) you’d need Master ARM to remove the covers before any video was usable for any purpose.Are IR Mavs available at BMS ?, I couldnt find them.-
What happens if when boresighting non IR Mavs on the ground, you remove the covers with master arm on ? -
D and G models are IR. It’s a rare thing to fly anything else in BMS! With IR Mavs with the frangible covers… you don’t bore those on the ground. If you really had to bore IR Mavs on the ground you wouldn’t use the frangible covers (maybe the red plastic covers removed at EOR?). You don’t get the frangible covers in BMS under certain conditions. I think only if you load in LAU-88; in LAU-117 no covers.
-
Yep. Only LAU-88 require covers and only for IR MAVs.
Without covers the guidance system (the IR sensor) could get damaged by the rocket motor of launched missile. If you load 3 or 2 of them on LAU-88 the first one launched could damage the rest.
I gess that this is because rocket motor generates a lot of heat and this could simply blind the sensor permanently (much like night vision devices that can be permanently damaged when exposed to sunlight).
With LAU-117 you got single MAV on launcher, so there are no other MAVs on the same launcher that could get damaged.
And with B and A MAVs you got EO sensor within visible light spectrum so its not that much sensitive for heat.Macieksoft, I agree in part, except for we Carrier-types. We don’t have handy cities on ingress because we’re over water until close to the enemy coast. So, I would prefer doing it on deck. I would easily have time while the INS completes alignment. The problem is, the TGP won’t time in soon enough.
It may be “cheating”, but is there something in Config. that could be changed? I know there’s one for Mav boresight time.I do not fly carrier OPS. I fly F-16 only.
I am not even sure if real Hornets have boresight and TGP handoff functions. -
Are IR Mavs available at BMS ?, I couldnt find them.-
What happens if when boresighting non IR Mavs on the ground, you remove the covers with master arm on ?I think you mean laser Mavs - no, they aren’t in there…and they need to be. Laser Mav does not need to be boresighted…only IR and TV Mavs do. So in BMS I guess we need to boresight all of what we get.
-
Yep. Only LAU-88 require covers and only for IR MAVs.
Without covers the guidance system (the IR sensor) could get damaged by the rocket motor of launched missile. If you load 3 or 2 of them on LAU-88 the first one launched could damage the rest.
I gess that this is because rocket motor generates a lot of heat and this could simply blind the sensor permanently (much like night vision devices that can be permanently damaged when exposed to sunlight).
With LAU-117 you got single MAV on launcher, so there are no other MAVs on the same launcher that could get damaged.
And with B and A MAVs you got EO sensor within visible light spectrum so its not that much sensitive for heat.I do not fly carrier OPS. I fly F-16 only.
I am not even sure if real Hornets have boresight and TGP handoff functions.Mostly just fogged from the exhaust residue, I’d think….
Yes, but “handoff” is easier than with the Viper…far more automatic. The real trick to boresighting on deck is to use the HUD - find something you can see in the HUD - farther away the better - and synch everything to that. Problem still being, that in RL you’re still going to have to boresight the next missile airborne once selected and awake (dome blown). I hate those domes…I prefer LMAV. And so does the USN - Fly NAVY!
-
-
IRL there are some new generation TV ones that probably have BSGT function. They also have force correlate option.
I mean the ones with new CCD sensor. IIRC they are AGM-65K and H and you have them in DCS.In BMS the TV ones we have are old ones, the A and B that use old EO sensor based on vaccum tube just like first TV cameras.
They are old so they don’t have BSGT option.And in Hornet you don’t need dome covers as you do not have LAU-88.
Mostly just fogged from the exhaust residue, I’d think….
Really?
So why TV ones doesn’t have covers?
I think its about damage to the sensitive thermal camera and this can be the reason why only IR ones have covers.
As i explained before exhaust is preatty hot and strong thermal radiation could be bad for the sensor, just like strong light is bad for night vision.Yes, but “handoff” is easier than with the Viper…far more automatic.
You mean boresight?
Handoff in viper is preatty automatic. Only thing you have to do is to blow the covers. -
I’m surprised the TV ones wouldn’t have covers…seems to me like they’d be just as sensitive as the IR ones - and for similar reasons - if mounted on a triple rack. Unless they are just so old that they never had covers to begin with?..dunno. Never worked with those. But I should think they still would need to be boresighted unless their FOV is so wide that they just use the weapon as sensor…which means you need to get close to use one.
Boresight is about the same…but “handoff” seems more complex in BMS seeing as how many people seem to be having problems - you do have to blow the covers and lock the weapon after switching SOI. If you have a poor boresight then you’re going to have problems locking the weapon to obtain the “handoff”. Maybe it’s boresighting that’s easier…and maybe it’s just a better situation all around when using a single rail LAU-117 launcher? USN/USMC have never used triple racks for Mavs…they seem more and more like a PITA.
-
Don’t covers exist for EO (A/B) and CCD (H/K) Mavericks? I swear I’ve seen covers on a non-IR model. They wouldn’t bother to make them in visible-wavelength-clear materials if they were only supposed to go over IR sensors. Runway and low altitude debris/bugs are reasons to cover any seeker, not just exhausts. Maybe the material that the IR sensors are covered in is more delicate than the glass ones. I don’t know. I wouldn’t treat BMS as an ultimate authority on which configs of which models get covers. In BMS if you -88 rack multiple A or B missiles do they get covers or not?
I also have slight suspicions of A and B model missiles externally driven like with PRE or VIS and even more suspicious of A&B compatible with TGP MBC handoff.