Maverick PRE
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All,
I’m trying to figure out what the process is for using a maverick in pre-mode. I’ve watched several tutorial videos (including Krause) and it didn’t really explain the details of how the systems work together.
If I have a steerpoint selected that’s a PPT (e.g. stpt 56), will the maverick seeker automatically lock to that steerpoint? Or do I need to use the FCR first to lock?
Smaller question: When using the FCR in ground mode, after slewing about a bit how do I reset it back to my current steerpoint?
Thanks!
strtok -
On your last question : click on the “TGT” OSB#10, on the right lower side of the GM FCR display.
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IIRC, in pre mode, the maverick seeker head will lock to the point on the ground where the current steerpoint is, note not the TARGET, but the point on the ground.
To reset the seeker head back to the current steerpoint, IIRC, use TMS back with the maverick as the SOI, then switch SOI to the radar MFD and TMS back. I think. Not home. I just do it without thinking.
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Can you SPI it to the TGP like on the DCS A10C ?
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Can you SPI it to the TGP like on the DCS A10C ?
Absolutely not, and I really wish we could.
That functionality ROCKS in the ED A10C.
Not being able to slave a weapon to a TGP SPI cuts the FBMS Sniper pod’s usefulness in HALF.
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‘PRE’ mode of the MAV in BMS is more like a ‘pre determined’ mode, meaning that one would have to predetermine his/her target before refining his/her aim with the electro optics. The most common method of utilizing the MAV in PRE mode is as follows: switch to A-G Mode, select MAVs and make sure they are aligned/spooled up, make sure your FCR is SOI, search for targets with the FCR and when you find some - TMS UP, this switches the MAVs electro optics to SOI, fine aim, TMS UP and launch. ‘PRE’ mode of a weapon system essentially ties up that weapon system to another sensor that serves as a target designator.
If I have a steerpoint selected that’s a PPT (e.g. stpt 56), will the maverick seeker automatically lock to that steerpoint?
No it won’t look to the steerpoint unless the FCR is looking there. The Maverick is an optical weapon system, in the F16 you either search targets visually (VIS mode or BORE mode) or you slave it to a more potent sensor like the radar (PRE mode), the latter mode means that wherever the radar is looking the MAV’d be looking.
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Not being able to slave a weapon to a TGP SPI cuts the FBMS Sniper pod’s usefulness in HALF.
Yep… Couldn’t said it better myself
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Right. I get that the maverick is an optical weapons system. I guess the question is what the PRE mode in maverick really means?
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Right. I get that the maverick is an optical weapons system. I guess the question is what the PRE mode in maverick really means?
Pre “target designation” I reckon. As opposed to visual and bore whereby you lock the seeker head directly onto a target as opposed to slaving the seeker to an FCR assigned target…dunno, roll with it.
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Can you set a mark point with the TGP, then set the markpoint as your current steerpoint, and then slave the Mav to that steerpoint?
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In the F-16 it’s known as Targeting Pod EO Delivery and it has a similar ease of use to the DCS A-10 but it’s even cooler. Instead of “slaving Mav to SPI” and then having to command lock using the MAV/WPN page like a caveman, the mechanism for readying the Maverick to fire is called Missile Boresight Correlator. PRE mode is a radar-Maverick mode and VIS is a HUD-Maverick mode. You can use the TGP to employ the Maverick starting from either of these modes. The MBC is another layer of logic that takes over Maverick aiming from the other modes. When MBC is in effect you aren’t really in PRE or VIS, those were just to get the TGP pointed in the proper direction.
In the A-10 the steerpoint (standing in for the F-16’s radar), TGP, and HUD TDC are all peer sensors which can be the “SPI generator” and then the Maverick is slaved LOS to SPI. The F-16 method is more hierarchical, strict, and automated. That doesn’t mean that the F-16 doesn’t use the SPI concept, it just doesn’t come up in TGP EO delivery. PRE means FCR, VIS means HUD; you don’t get the flexible toolbox approach like the A-10. The MBC is an override which rips control away from the previous delivery schemes. You’re still in PRE or VIS and the symbology is unchanged but the MBC has control of the missile.
So if an object is point tracked in TGP NFOV (should auto NFOV if WFOV). Assuming AGM-65 selected, the MBC enacts to override VIS/PRE to slew the Maverick LOS to the TGP LOS (this is why NFOV and IR is required to match the IR video from the Maverick), compare the two images for fine correction, and command track. The whole process is called “handoff” with a “handoff in progress” and a “handoff complete” message on the TGP MFD page. It’s a script of sorts that is triggered by a point track (and SOI!) of TGP.
Using the MBC you never actually interface with the WPN MFD format at all. The TGP steals the WPN video feed during the handoff. Two missiles (one each side) can be handed off to separate targets at any time. WPN video switches to the active handoff process. If handoff fails a number of times the TGP steps through the LAU-88A to the next missile. TMS right restarts the handoff.
I don’t know how well or if this works using H/K model Mavericks and the TV camera for the TGP. The process I’m reading is only for IIR.
So the upshot of all this is, command TGP point track, wait for handoff, fire. It’s significantly more automated than the A-10 method.
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Can you set a mark point with the TGP, then set the markpoint as your current steerpoint, and then slave the Mav to that steerpoint?
Yes. I do that very often.
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In the F-16 it’s known as Targeting Pod EO Delivery and it has a similar ease of use to the DCS A-10 but it’s even cooler. Instead of “slaving Mav to SPI” and then having to command lock using the MAV/WPN page like a caveman, the mechanism for readying the Maverick to fire is called Missile Boresight Correlator. PRE mode is a radar-Maverick mode and VIS is a HUD-Maverick mode. You can use the TGP to employ the Maverick starting from either of these modes. The MBC is another layer of logic that takes over Maverick aiming from the other modes. When MBC is in effect you aren’t really in PRE or VIS, those were just to get the TGP pointed in the proper direction.
In the A-10 the steerpoint (standing in for the F-16’s radar), TGP, and HUD TDC are all peer sensors which can be the “SPI generator” and then the Maverick is slaved LOS to SPI. The F-16 method is more hierarchical, strict, and automated. That doesn’t mean that the F-16 doesn’t use the SPI concept, it just doesn’t come up in TGP EO delivery. PRE means FCR, VIS means HUD; you don’t get the flexible toolbox approach like the A-10. The MBC is an override which rips control away from the previous delivery schemes. You’re still in PRE or VIS and the symbology is unchanged but the MBC has control of the missile.
So if an object is point tracked in TGP NFOV (should auto NFOV if WFOV). Assuming AGM-65 selected, the MBC enacts to override VIS/PRE to slew the Maverick LOS to the TGP LOS (this is why NFOV and IR is required to match the IR video from the Maverick), compare the two images for fine correction, and command track. The whole process is called “handoff” with a “handoff in progress” and a “handoff complete” message on the TGP MFD page. It’s a script of sorts that is triggered by a point track (and SOI!) of TGP.
Using the MBC you never actually interface with the WPN MFD format at all. The TGP steals the WPN video feed during the handoff. Two missiles (one each side) can be handed off to separate targets at any time. WPN video switches to the active handoff process. If handoff fails a number of times the TGP steps through the LAU-88A to the next missile. TMS right restarts the handoff.
I don’t know how well or if this works using H/K model Mavericks and the TV camera for the TGP. The process I’m reading is only for IIR.
So the upshot of all this is, command TGP point track, wait for handoff, fire. It’s significantly more automated than the A-10 method.
Hnggggg…
How about slaving it to the HMCS?
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Can you set a mark point with the TGP, then set the markpoint as your current steerpoint, and then slave the Mav to that steerpoint?
Yes and no. If you have a steerpoint (no matter how you got it, TGP or otherwise) then you just use PREplanned mode like normal. The problem is that you can’t get slew control over the Maverick directly until you get a FTT in GM/GMT/SEA. So if you wanted to attack a non-radar target in PRE, you’ll go crazy as the Maverick is pointed at the steer/target but you can’t have control of it directly until the radar locks.
I don’t know if this is a realistic limitation or not. It says it switches SOI automagically on FCR lock but I don’t know if it’s possible to “break slave” of a Maverick in PRE without having an FCR lock, you certainly can’t in BMS. In such a situation I would recommend BORE which has CCRP type symbology on the HUD but allows direct Maverick control. You’ll have to fly the bore cross onto the target manually though.
Hnggggg…
How about slaving it to the HMCS?
I assume it can be done but I have no knowledge. If I had to make a stab at how it works -stroke- how I would do it if I were the engineer I would say that if HMCS is active that VIS mode would be designated by HMCS priority over the HUD. To revert to HUD-VIS you’d have to suspend the HMCS. That’s just a guess though.
Here’s an article that a quick Googling brought up http://proceedings.spiedigitallibrary.org/proceeding.aspx?articleid=998446 If anyone feels like investing $18 USD.
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Yes and no. If you have a steerpoint (no matter how you got it, TGP or otherwise) then you just use PREplanned mode like normal. The problem is that you can’t get slew control over the Maverick directly until you get a FTT in GM/GMT/SEA. So if you wanted to attack a non-radar target in PRE, you’ll go crazy as the Maverick is pointed at the steer/target but you can’t have control of it directly until the radar locks.
I don’t know if this is a realistic limitation or not. It says it switches SOI automagically on FCR lock but I don’t know if it’s possible to “break slave” of a Maverick in PRE without having an FCR lock, you certainly can’t in BMS. In such a situation I would recommend BORE which has CCRP type symbology on the HUD but allows direct Maverick control. You’ll have to fly the bore cross onto the target manually though.
Thanks! This feels more like PRE mode for the FCR, so I think there probably is something missing here.
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Yes and no. If you have a steerpoint (no matter how you got it, TGP or otherwise) then you just use PREplanned mode like normal. The problem is that you can’t get slew control over the Maverick directly until you get a FTT in GM/GMT/SEA. So if you wanted to attack a non-radar target in PRE, you’ll go crazy as the Maverick is pointed at the steer/target but you can’t have control of it directly until the radar locks.
I don’t know if this is a realistic limitation or not. It says it switches SOI automagically on FCR lock but I don’t know if it’s possible to “break slave” of a Maverick in PRE without having an FCR lock, you certainly can’t in BMS. In such a situation I would recommend BORE which has CCRP type symbology on the HUD but allows direct Maverick control. You’ll have to fly the bore cross onto the target manually though.
I assume it can be done but I have no knowledge. If I had to make a stab at how it works -stroke- how I would do it if I were the engineer I would say that if HMCS is active that VIS mode would be designated by HMCS priority over the HUD. To revert to HUD-VIS you’d have to suspend the HMCS. That’s just a guess though.
Here’s an article that a quick Googling brought up http://proceedings.spiedigitallibrary.org/proceeding.aspx?articleid=998446 If anyone feels like investing $18 USD.
I was hoping to avoid putting the HUD on the target, because that means you’re running straight at it and rapidly closing the distance, reducing the time you have to play with the switchology and potentially putting yourself into the target’s own WEZ if it’s an anti-aircraft unit. Back in my F4AF days I was pretty good at the HARM lockup-HUD onto HARM box-switch to MAV-lock-fire routine, but it was always dicey.
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Thanks! This feels more like PRE mode for the FCR, so I think there probably is something missing here.
Sorry, I should mention that this is RL behavior. BMS doesn’t do the MBC logic.
I was hoping to avoid putting the HUD on the target, because that means you’re running straight at it and rapidly closing the distance, reducing the time you have to play with the switchology and potentially putting yourself into the target’s own WEZ if it’s an anti-aircraft unit. Back in my F4AF days I was pretty good at the HARM lockup-HUD onto HARM box-switch to MAV-lock-fire routine, but it was always dicey.
It’s a Maverick which isn’t very good off boresight anyway. Realistically you’d obey the 30-30-30 rule and have to launch from the “keyhole” angular limits. The gimbal does 60 degrees off but you can’t exploit all of that practically. If your steer is radar significant then by all means use PRE and you’re done in record time. If your target isn’t radar significant it’s probably going to take some slewing anyway to refine the gates and that sucks to do with any sort of parallax motion. The BMS Maverick doesn’t accurately portray how hard it is to slew if there’s any parallax motion going on.
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In the F-16 it’s known as Targeting Pod EO Delivery and it has a similar ease of use to the DCS A-10 but it’s even cooler. Instead of “slaving Mav to SPI” and then having to command lock using the MAV/WPN page like a caveman, the mechanism for readying the Maverick to fire is called Missile Boresight Correlator. PRE mode is a radar-Maverick mode and VIS is a HUD-Maverick mode. You can use the TGP to employ the Maverick starting from either of these modes. The MBC is another layer of logic that takes over Maverick aiming from the other modes. When MBC is in effect you aren’t really in PRE or VIS, those were just to get the TGP pointed in the proper direction.
Hi, MBC isn’t really about TGP, but it’s about generic missile eye missalignment due to the missile’s loading on a given rack. The MBC process is done once for each station and you can theoretically do it without involving the TGP at all. With TGP on the alignment will be more appropriate because TGP Handoff is sensitive to even small missalignments between TPG and missile eye. In general before MBC you can operated the missile normally in PRE mode just you’ll have some gap between the SPI position and the missile eye position, but if you slew the WPN page to where you want, the missile will lock and hit. TGP Handoff though will probably fail because of the gap.
EDIT: Please ignore this post, I confused the MBC with other Boresight process related to the missile itself.