Waypoint and Fuel Issue
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Hi all,
My mate and I installed BMS 4.33 a week ago and have been going over the weapon systems but we’re seeing inconsistency’s in some systems.
So just now, I hosted a simple HARM training mission. we took off and were setting up our HARM’s using the PPT’s when myu mate gets a bingo warning. He’s at 85% throttle but now has 1500lbs of fuel left. This is the first time we’ve seen this issue.
On the way back to base, the diamond in the HUD which should be on the airport isn’t there. His HSD is fine, his steerpoint cue on the HUD is fine, we’re both on STPT 7 which is home plate but the diamond is to the right of his HUD and crossed out (Meaning the marker is wayyyyy off to the right of the HUD.
He’s had issues with this when we’ve been trying the Mavericks. My stpt is where it should be, his is in a field way off the target by miles.
Do we need to “double-click the green line” before flight as that used to be a thing 10-15 years ago (lol)?
Thanks,
Jex -
Fuel …. he burned too much fuel. The question is, “Why?” Airbrakes open? Too much afterburner? Some thing …
Diamond could be a Cursor Zero issue (most likely) or a SPI issue.
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Zero the cursor on the AG FCR. OSB #9 on MFD IIRC. That will get his steerpoint diamond back where it belongs.
For fuel management, there are a ton of variables that are left to the imagination. Was throttle at 85% the entire flight? Not likely. What is fuel flow showing when throttle is at 85%? May not have afterburner set correctly. Check this in controller setup in the UI.
When I first started flying online, I used to run out of gas when everyone else had 2-4 thousand lbs. left. Fuel usage needs to be constantly monitored and just a few short minutes in afterburner will drain the tanks in a hurry.
My best guess is that he was the #2 ship and got behind you several times and used the AB to catch up rather than letting you know he was having trouble keeping up, in which case you could have adjusted your speed down to help him catch up w/o using all his fuel.
Those are just some common fuel problems most of us dealt with when learning to drive the Viper. Just keep in mind that the F-16 is a hot rod with a very small fuel quantity.
HTH!
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Hi and thanks for the replies.
For the fuel, no - we had literally just taken off, had burner on up to 20k then both backed off the throttle to 85% (we’ve been flying falcon for over 10 years so this is SOP for us). It was shortly after takeoff that he got “bingo” and we were both on the same throttle settings the entire time yet I had 5900lbs of fuel. I also had not changed our fuel in the loadout page so something weird happened. We got in again with the same mission and it was all fine so it’s inconsistent.
However, we just did a third Mission and practiced our Mavs again. Everything was fine, STPT’s were all where they where meant to be. Howevr, we forgot to set our DTC so our runway was set to Mandumi (we took off from Kimpo I think) - so get this, he calls for landing (T-2) and gets a response from Mandumi then about a minute later he notices his stpt is now saying 27 miles away but when he lands, it resets back to 0.
So it looks as though the call to land set the stpt to Mandumi. I didn’t call to land and mine where fine. So this is either a feature we’re unaware of or a bug.
Thanks again
Jex
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…. So it looks as though the call to land set the stpt to Mandumi. I didn’t call to land and mine where fine. So this is either a feature we’re unaware of or a bug.
Thanks again
Jex
That would be a bug. I’m sure the devs would appreciate a repro case.
On the fuel, any chance the fuel slider in the 2D loadout planning screen got changed?
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Hi and thanks for the replies.
For the fuel, no - we had literally just taken off, had burner on up to 20k then both backed off the throttle to 85% (we’ve been flying falcon for over 10 years so this is SOP for us). It was shortly after takeoff that he got “bingo” and we were both on the same throttle settings the entire time yet I had 5900lbs of fuel. I also had not changed our fuel in the loadout page so something weird happened. We got in again with the same mission and it was all fine so it’s inconsistent.
However, we just did a third Mission and practiced our Mavs again. Everything was fine, STPT’s were all where they where meant to be. Howevr, we forgot to set our DTC so our runway was set to Mandumi (we took off from Kimpo I think) - so get this, he calls for landing (T-2) and gets a response from Mandumi then about a minute later he notices his stpt is now saying 27 miles away but when he lands, it resets back to 0.
So it looks as though the call to land set the stpt to Mandumi. I didn’t call to land and mine where fine. So this is either a feature we’re unaware of or a bug.
Thanks again
Jex
Thanks again lol
And no - as flight lead all I did was set the munitions. I didn’t set individually so both our names were highlighted. If I had touched the slider it would have set the same fuel for both of us but I had full fuel. we’ve done about 30-40 flights now and this is the first time we’ve had this issue with fuel and are scracthing our heads.
We’ll test the “Mandumi Bug” further and if get the same I’ll post a bug report
cheers, jex
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Possible HOTAS combo conflict producing time to time an “ALT+D” combination (?)
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Possible HOTAS combo conflict producing time to time an “ALT+D” combination (?)
We did think it might be a button issue so he pressed every button and couldn’t dump fuel but that is a possibility as he’s had issues with his CH HOTAS
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My apologies for making you look noobish. I got confused when you said you installed a week ago. Didn’t realize you’ve got a decade in the sim.
Sounds like the problem is on your buddy’s end and you might just consider a reinstall on his machine and see if that fixes it. Sounds like he has something porked. If problem is still there, then I would try to make a bug report.
Don’t know if it matters, but are you MP online or on a LAN?
About the ALT-D. I wish you could turn that off since the real jet doesn’t have the ability to dump fuel. I understand that it is needed for testing and development. I just wish I could turn it off! ( I don’t need the temptation)
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need more info
forgot to set your DTC:
wouldn’t change a thing. DTC or not your INS flight plan is loaded. So what did you mean by that?
he calls for landing (T-2) and gets a response from Mandumi :
where was he? distance from homeplate? which frequency was he on?
What was your INS homeplate? Mandumi or Kimpo? what steerpoint was manumi on your INS flightplan?about a minute later he notices his stpt is now saying 27 miles away but when he lands, it resets back to 0.
what’s steerpoint number was he on? IOW what does the DED says regarding active steerpoint?
there is no steerpoint 0. Homeplate is 1 (departure)
contacting atc doesn’t change steerpoints. If CZ wasn’t performed you still have offset issues, easily checked with the highlighted CZ mnemonic in Mfds
hotas issue might also be the case as suggested earlier
INS issue would be a likely cause as well? but you’d have more symptomsAbout the ALT-D. I wish you could turn that off since the real jet doesn’t have the ability to dump fuel. I understand that it is needed for testing and development. I just wish I could turn it off! ( I don’t need the temptation)
don’t use it. Or even better, don’t declare it in your keyfile
we had literally just taken off, had burner on up to 20k then both backed off the throttle to 85% (we’ve been flying falcon for over 10 years so this is SOP for us)
Maybe you can try a technique that burns less fuel and yield less possibility of fuel problems. Staying that long in AB can cause issues… beside burning a lot of fuel obviously.
Here’s what most of us do:
Take off, accelerate to 350 kts with burner.
then go buster, execute a buster climb to briefed altitude by adapting climb angle to maintain 350 kts
Works great, saves fuel and more -
About the ALT-D. I wish you could turn that off since the real jet doesn’t have the ability to dump fuel. I understand that it is needed for testing and development. I just wish I could turn it off! ( I don’t need the temptation)
Only relevant for some BetaTest …
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I’ve had similar fuel issues where my fuel magically seemed to evaporate. I believe its due to my internet speed. It has only happened when in multiplayer. I have marginal internet at best. I’ve found when in full AB and the game begins to pause then un-pause and go x2 or x4 due to poor connection and lag, when the sim and internet finally “realign” themselves I’ve burned an excessive amount of fuel to say the least.
Not saying this is your problem but its a possibility to look into.
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I have witnessed in exceptional cases that fuel at spawn was incorrect
Bug difficult to reproduce and therefore to fix
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@Red:
need more info
wouldn’t change a thing. DTC or not your INS flight plan is loaded. So what did you mean by that?
where was he? distance from homeplate? which frequency was he on?
What was your INS homeplate? Mandumi or Kimpo? what steerpoint was manumi on your INS flightplan?what’s steerpoint number was he on? IOW what does the DED says regarding active steerpoint?
there is no steerpoint 0. Homeplate is 1 (departure)
contacting atc doesn’t change steerpoints. If CZ wasn’t performed you still have offset issues, easily checked with the highlighted CZ mnemonic in Mfds
hotas issue might also be the case as suggested earlier
INS issue would be a likely cause as well? but you’d have more symptomsdon’t use it. Or even better, don’t declare it in your keyfile
Maybe you can try a technique that burns less fuel and yield less possibility of fuel problems. Staying that long in AB can cause issues… beside burning a lot of fuel obviously.
Here’s what most of us do:
Take off, accelerate to 350 kts with burner.
then go buster, execute a buster climb to briefed altitude by adapting climb angle to maintain 350 kts
Works great, saves fuel and moreDTC:
This we didn’t set so the airbase was set to our previous mission at Mandumi. By not setting the DTC and saving preset 15 as home plate, it was set to Mandumi but we took off from Kimpo.
He was on the runway at Kimpo which was our home plate. This was set to stpt 7. As for FREQ can’t say, whatever it defaults to.
Mandumi wasn’t a stpt at all. We took off from Kimpo, flew north to hit targets (this was a quick TE I made btw) then made our way back to stpt 7 home plate.
Prior to landing, maybe 10-20 miles out he called atc for landing but Mandumi replied as that’s what our DTC had us set to.
He noticed his steerpoint was 27 miles away when he was practically on the runway so he didn’t stop and took off then he noticed almost immediately the steerpoint was at 0 miles once again and was where it should be.
so quick recap
We headed to home plate steer 7
stpt was on Kimpo airbase
He called ATC to land but the flight was set to mandumi tower
Mandumi replied to him - note that I didn’t call
As he landed he noticed steer 7 was 27 miles away
as he took off it reset to 0 milesAs for the fuel, bingo came on 30 seconds after we took off. You can’t burn that much fuel on burner but also, we were formed up pretty much and mirroring each others throttle setting. I was lead and was on burner the same time so if he was using too much fuel, I would have been also at bingo since we were 500m from each other. Out of 40 flights we never saw this until yesterday but we’ll keep an eye on it and do further testing
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Whatever you DTC or channel, this doesn’t matter. What matter is frequencies. So … you need to confirm what was the frequencies.
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Well it’s simple
Mandumi is about 27 Nm from Kimpo
So it’s pretty normal you have your INS steerpoint 27 Nm from where you landed
At least from what I understand from your explanationIf preset is from a previous flight and you contact another tower frequency without you knowing, then that tower will respond.
Don’t expect the right tower to talk to you if you’re not on the right frequency
Presets are shortcuts but you have to set them right
If you don’t you screw it up.
To avoid it, use the frequencies
the interactive map has all the relevant freqs
http://www.ravico.com/ST/BMS_KOREA_interactive/index.html -
The freq was Mandumi as Mandumi was the airbase that called back.
I’ve just tested this and can replicate this bug. This is what I did.
- Fly a (TE) mission from Mandumi, set dtc and save for comms set to Mandumi.
- Fly a (TE) mission from Kimpo, do not touch DTC
- Fly to the friendly Radar base west of Mandumi (radar site 4)
- select home plate (this was steer 7 for me)
- At 10 miles, T-2
- Watch your HUD and the distance is now increasing for the steerpoint (as it’s now set to Mandumi).
- Steerpoint cue (diamond) is still over Kimpo
- Land at Kimpo, keep rolling, take off and watch the distance reset to 0 miles in the HUD.
Is this a bug or when you contact a tower it automatically changes to show the distance to that airfield?
hanks again to everyone for help
Jex
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I found out what we might be doing wrong with the waypoints moving off but I have no clue how I managed it. We were practicing our Mavericks and then somehow when I slewed my camera, the waypoint diamond in the HUD was now moving. I’m pretty sure you can move waypoints through the HUD I just don’t know what I pressed to enable it.
Any ideas?
thanks!
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Yes,
post #2 in this discussion provided the answer
Diamond could be a Cursor Zero issue (most likely) or a SPI issue.
suggest reading manuals about Cursor zero need and the habit of doing TMS down, Cursor zero
Is this a bug or when you contact a tower it automatically changes to show the distance to that airfield?
No and No
it’s no bug, it’s normal behaviour and happens because you do not understand the SPI management and NO contacting tower does not automatically move waypoint to that airfield -
@Red:
Yes,
post #2 in this discussion provided the answer
suggest reading manuals about Cursor zero need and the habit of doing TMS down, Cursor zero
No and No
it’s no bug, it’s notrmal behavious because you do not understand the SPI management and NO contacting tower does not automatically move waypoint to that airfieldIt’s normal behaviour to show the mileage to the tower you just called, no matter what tower it is, in the HUD instead of the mileage to the actual waypoint selected and then if you touch and go, to reset that mileage back to the waypoint you are actually set to?
What would be the point of that?