A word or two about a development team change…
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im glad the man in question at microprose chose to ignore discipline on leaking… BMS wont exist if it wasnt for him.
True, and I believe even Kevin Klemick (the guy that gave us the dynamic campaign) said years later that he was glad it happened. However, that doesn’t mean all leaks are good or right.
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Wrong if you wish to say these are similar things. BMS Team is alive. In 2001 F4.0 was far from a good and finished state when the whole team and support was cancelled. Is a big difference between leak about an ongoing development or leak the code of a “left for dead” product.
Without the F4.0 leak F4.0 likely would be known as one of the biggest fail in development while today F4.0 BMS is one of the oldest or the oldest still in development project FOR FREE.
Perhaps. I was only 13 when it released, but I still have super fond memories of the original. The manual alone was an epic task to finish, and whilst the game was buggy and a prone to CTDs, it was very much ahead of its time.
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@Nick:
I also believe it’s not good for the community if the BMS source code would be available. Again, there would be different versions, as one group of Diva Devs thinks it can do better than the other. Unfortunately that would split our community again.
Yes but nothing like that happened in the present case though.
I was sad to see how pissed off the guy was when he learned about the dev decision to exclude him, not angry at the devs but at its own naive to think that secret would be kept into the circle he was leaking in, and it was as if he lost something really worthwhile in his life. It looked to me like he just wanted to give some thrills to a bunch of fanboys, not really looking at the consequences of someone leaking back out of this fanboy base. Based on that I founded the decision a bit harsh but that’s just a feeling from someone really new here, so I’m really glad to hear devs point of view, it helps me accept it.Anyway I’ve been flying dcs for just a few months, and now BMS for just a few weeks, and wow, seems like I founded the real thing, so, much respect to all those that make it possible for us all to enjoy
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I do agree with the team to keep everything unified and not leaking is a good thing as far as source code.
Im talking about updates like a blog update or some roadmap would keep the buzz going. It does matter.
And for gods sake somebody get in contact with Archer and fix whatever it is that is killing Falcon Online.
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I won’t judge on whether the leak was good or bad, since there are arguments for both. I may also be biased, as I too was one of those “lucky spectators”, as Lorik called it.
Just to make my position clear from the start:
I would welcome it heartily if the BMS dev team decided to be more open about what they’re working on, instead of working endlessly behind the scenes until they deem it ready for release. Not only would it show people that progress is being made, it also helps virtual squadrons and modders prepare for what is to come.
E.g. it took our squadron 6 - 7 months to fully transition from 4.32 to 4.33, as some of our older pilots had a lot of problems (and were extremely close to giving up) because they couldn’t wrap their head around some of the new features. From what I’ve seen of what’s supposedly coming in 4.34, I know for a fact that those pilots will struggle again, and we might have lost them had we not known ahead of time. But because we now do, we can already dig up the necessary information, prepare our academics and get those pilots prepped as best we can in 4.33, which will hopefully make our transition to 4.34 a lot smoother.Obviously, when you’ve shown something that doesn’t make the release (yet), there will always be people that are disappointed, maybe even salty, because they were really looking forward to what was in the pipeline, but if you give an explanation or allow us the space to discuss why the item was abandoned or not (yet) implemented, I’m certain the majority of this community would not hold anything against the team. (most of that majority probably even without the need for an explanation or discussion)
Let him leak it doesnt hurt anything bms team needs more transparency.
Since when decides which is good for a team an outsider? I think BMS Team knows which is best for the team…
The now ex-dev wasn’t an outsider, and he decided to show parts of what’s being worked on, so there was at least one in the team that is of the opinion that more transparency wouldn’t hurt anyone. I never got the impression that he was doing it as some sort of rebellion against the dev team, or increasing the size of his e-peen. What started this entire situation was someone asking a question related to his expertise, to which he replied how he had changed things, so as to make sure that the person asking wouldn’t spend (and lose) a massive amount of time and effort on something that would be obsolete the moment 4.34 released.
That outed him as a dev, and after that, in my opinion, his pride in his work, and his mindset that the development shouldn’t necessarily happen behind closed doors (which he was open about from the start), was in a way “taken advantage of” by some, and what started as a source leaking droplets, was eventually manipulated into a torrent…. From my point of view, I honestly don’t know if I can blame them, however. Perhaps it’s too easy or cheap to say that this might not have happened if the dev team had been (a bit) less secretive from the get-go, though in my opinion, it did play a part in why so much attention and interest was paid to it in the first place.Actually, as some bits of information about what’s (not) being worked on for 4.34 or 4.35 have already been publicly shared on this forum, I dare say there are more within the team that lean towards the opinion of sharing stuff while they are still WIP. From my point of view as an outsider, that does come across as a bit of a double standard in who is allowed to share something and who isn’t.
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Regardless of this being a right or wrong scenario a person went against the rest of the group. They knew what was agreed upon when they were let into the community and decided against it anyway. It would be awesome if there was more transparency between the devs and the community but they have chosen to work the way they do and I respect that. I pay nothing for this and get a ton of enjoyment out of it so if that’s the way they want to work the more power to them.
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The now ex-dev wasn’t an outsider, and he decided to show parts of what’s being worked on, so there was at least one in the team that is of the opinion that more transparency wouldn’t hurt anyone. I never got the impression that he was doing it as some sort of rebellion against the dev team, or increasing the size of his e-peen. What started this entire situation was someone asking a question related to his expertise, to which he replied how he had changed things, so as to make sure that the person asking wouldn’t spend (and lose) a massive amount of time and effort on something that would be obsolete the moment 4.34 released.
That outed him as a dev, and after that, in my opinion, his pride in his work, and his mindset that the development shouldn’t necessarily happen behind closed doors (which he was open about from the start), was in a way “taken advantage of” by some, and what started as a source leaking droplets, was eventually manipulated into a torrent…. From my point of view, I honestly don’t know if I can blame them, however. Perhaps it’s too easy or cheap to say that this might not have happened if the dev team had been (a bit) less secretive from the get-go, though in my opinion, it did play a part in why so much attention and interest was paid to it in the first place.Actually, as some bits of information about what’s (not) being worked on for 4.34 or 4.35 have already been publicly shared on this forum, I dare say there are more within the team that lean towards the opinion of sharing stuff while they are still WIP. From my point of view as an outsider, that does come across as a bit of a double standard in who is allowed to share something and who isn’t.
I answered to shisabandit’s post and AFAIK he is not member of the BMS Team. My point was BMS Team knows what is good for the Team.
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Humans Rules and Leaks are all combined, was happening, is happening will be happening.
An institution creates rules for it’s welfare, humans have their opinion and act unrestricted, they are not machines. Institutions reject those that don’t follow rules.
So.Let’s thank the guy for all the years and effort for his contribution on the BMS development.
We’d all hope he continued to follow the rules but since this didn’t happen and he is out of he team for upcoming features media showcase leak.
Now let’s hope that he will stay on the light and keep the faith and continue to contribute on 3d party apps that are so much needed for the community and since he has an inside view of the things he can continue to be a very valuable asset to the community.Let’s see the glass half full and not half empty.
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We’d all hope he continued to follow the rules but since this didn’t happen and he is out of he team for upcoming features media showcase leak.
Now let’s hope that he will stay on the light and keep the faith and continue to contribute on 3d party apps that are so much needed for the community and since he has an inside view of the things he can continue to be a very valuable asset to the community.I’m sorry but that won’t happen. I’m not even supposed to post here so help me understand how I could help in any way anymore. I smell the post delete/account ban coming from a mile away already.
Anyway, everything Falcon/BMS related has been permanently removed from my NAS and computer without hope for recovery, backups and backups of backups included in a moment of what you could call “screw this I’m done”. Hardwares uninstalled/boxed in the attic. I was there for the people, not the game. I have no heart to work on 4.34 once it’s out, it’s been broken so to speak.
Thank you everyone for the good moment along the way. It’s been about 15 years for me and now I’m moving on. You’ll do fine without me.
Peace, love, inity to I and I,
Switch/RastaBenni
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Well greatness is a virtue. Once one aknowledges his mistake he can pursue and don’t give up the fight.
Στάλθηκε από το MI 5 μου χρησιμοποιώντας Tapatalk
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I gave up already. I have better things to do with my life than to loose my time over a video game I don’t even play with anymore.
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I gave up already. I have better things to do with my life than to loose my time over a video game I don’t even play with anymore.
Well you gotta do what makes you happy. There’s no point spending time in a hobby that you have no interest in.
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We can never know for sure what the next moment will be made of, let alone next day, month, year, might even be sudden death waiting us at the corner. Best we can do is trying our best to follow the flow without listening to our self created interprétations only creating resistances, solidity. Be water my friend, easier said than done, one have to follow a way to no way for this to fully happen.
My signature are Bruce Lee sayings, a guy who’s realisations seems to go far beyond just bodily Kung Fu. -
My point was BMS Team knows what is good for the Team.
And my point was that inside the team, there are some who are of another opinion than what is currently the policy, as others ( = devs, former devs and/or people close to them) have shared things about 4.34 and 4.35 as well. Some have been more explicit about it than others, sure, but they have shared it nonetheless.
Either the team policy is that everyone can share their own work, everyone can share whatever, everyone has to keep their mouth zipped, or it requires a democratic vote to share something. As I understand it, the team policy is that nobody is allowed to share anything until it’s done, so the fact that one dev was ousted while others can remain in place, at the very least gives the impression there is no consistency in who is and who isn’t allowed to do something.
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And my point was that inside the team, there are some who are of another opinion than what is currently the policy, as others ( = devs, former devs and/or people close to them) have shared things about 4.34 and 4.35 as well. Some have been more explicit about it than others, sure, but they have shared it nonetheless.
Either the team policy is that everyone can share their own work, everyone can share whatever, everyone has to keep their mouth zipped, or it requires a democratic vote to share something. As I understand it, the team policy is that nobody is allowed to share anything until it’s done, so the fact that one dev was ousted while others can remain in place, at the very least gives the impression there is no consistency in who is and who isn’t allowed to do something.
Rgr
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And my point was that inside the team, there are some who are of another opinion than what is currently the policy, as others ( = devs, former devs and/or people close to them) have shared things about 4.34 and 4.35 as well. Some have been more explicit about it than others, sure, but they have shared it nonetheless.
Either the team policy is that everyone can share their own work, everyone can share whatever, everyone has to keep their mouth zipped, or it requires a democratic vote to share something. As I understand it, the team policy is that nobody is allowed to share anything until it’s done, so the fact that one dev was ousted while others can remain in place, at the very least gives the impression there is no consistency in who is and who isn’t allowed to do something.
Valid points, but frankly it’s non of our business. I know you’re just making an observation, but what the team does or doesn’t do is up to them.
Unfortunately I’ve barely been able to fly at all, and haven’t even loaded BMS in 6 months + now for various reasons. I’m really hoping to get back and am really looking forward to see what 4.34 etc. brings. At the end of the day, I’m just grateful anything is shared with us at all, as frankly, they don’t have any obligation to.
Dragging this topic out can only step on peoples toes…
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And my point was that inside the team, there are some who are of another opinion than what is currently the policy, as others ( = devs, former devs and/or people close to them) have shared things about 4.34 and 4.35 as well. Some have been more explicit about it than others, sure, but they have shared it nonetheless.
Either the team policy is that everyone can share their own work, everyone can share whatever, everyone has to keep their mouth zipped, or it requires a democratic vote to share something. As I understand it, the team policy is that nobody is allowed to share anything until it’s done, so the fact that one dev was ousted while others can remain in place, at the very least gives the impression there is no consistency in who is and who isn’t allowed to do something.
There is nothing democratic about BMS. It’s management, developers, beta-testers. You are coder, you become part of management. You are not, you are just a regular member. That’s the way it has always been and they are too obtuse to change anything about that. It is ok to show WIP of models, it is not ok to show WIP of code. Regardless what Boxer might said, that’s the way it is. Another problem regarding what I teased with is it was not my work, and I recognise it was not mine to share either way.
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Okay guys I think all what should have been said, has been said and it’s time to close this discussion.
IMHO it shouldn’t even be open to debate anyway !!