Starting up with Falcon 4 BMS
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Check to see if your Radar Altimeter is on…
That. And to shush bitchin Betty if you ever mess up, you need to engage FLCS Reset button. It’s way back to your left. (sorry forgot what that part of the cockpit is called).
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Hey Willy
The TFR training mission start on the ground no?
You’re supposed to ramp the jet and set the TFR settings on the ground during ramp.
During the ramp the Ralt switch should indeed be ON
Then fly out and test fly the TFR between steerpoint 2 and 3 where the SWIM check is also tested (inducing RALT check)It’s all explained in the training manual covering that TE, if you start the TE in the air, you miss most of the point of training with the TFR.
My guess are:
Radar altitude switch error
WX mode on TFR - further down the route you go through inclement weather and rain disrupt the TFR, you have to counter that with the weather mode of the TFR (that would depend on when you start the TE in the air, hence why it’s not recommended)There is no need to use the FLCS reset in any way in that mission.
Just bear in mind that there are a full chapter in the Training manual to cover each step. If you guys overlook the manual, you might miss a lot and end up thinking the TFR is broken in 4.33
but it’s not -
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@Red:
Hey Willy
The TFR training mission start on the ground no?
You’re supposed to ramp the jet and set the TFR settings on the ground during ramp.
During the ramp the Ralt switch should indeed be ON
Then fly out and test fly the TFR between steerpoint 2 and 3 where the SWIM check is also tested (inducing RALT check)It’s all explained in the training manual covering that TE, if you start the TE in the air, you miss most of the point of training with the TFR.
My guess are:
Radar altitude switch error
WX mode on TFR - further down the route you go through inclement weather and rain disrupt the TFR, you have to counter that with the weather mode of the TFR (that would depend on when you start the TE in the air, hence why it’s not recommended)There is no need to use the FLCS reset in any way in that mission.
Just bear in mind that there are a full chapter in the Training manual to cover each step. If you guys overlook the manual, you might miss a lot and end up thinking the TFR is broken in 4.33
but it’s notThanks RD for the info.
My problem has been that when I tried it, I was short on time and was just trying to demo TF at a Sim Convention. Therefore, I just launched the TE while in the air and then I enabled TF at altitude. (That should be possible in the real F16 as far as I know. It was in Falcon AF.) I’ll try again and check the Radar Altimeter though I’m pretty sure I had it on and it was reading 5,000’ or maybe higher where I dropped into the mission.
I’ll also go grab a cup of coffee and sit back, relax and take some time out of pit builder to read that section of the Training Manual.
Having said that, I would think that there should be a way to reset that situation in the air if you make the sort of mistake that I did. Using FLCS reset would seem like too drastic of a thing to do while in flight for a real F16. (Or is it something real F16 pilots can do?) If it turns out that the Radar Altimeter is on, then I think there is something else wrong. When Betty was “bitching” none of the buttons on the TF would respond. That’s why I was thinking there is a bug as I couldn’t change a thing on the TF via the MFD.
I’ll read up and do some more experimentation. If you have time to repeat what I did by engaging TF for the first time while at altitude (with RAlt on) and you get the same “stuck” and repeating Betty messages and the TF MFD buttons don’t function, then you will have repeated the situation.
BTW, at one of the conventions, I demo’d this problem to Chris “String” Link who flys BMS more than I do and he tried doing the same TE, dropping in at altitude and then turning on TF. It did the same thing for him and TF wouldn’t respond on the MFD and Betty was stuck “bitchin”. We just had to abort the sim to get out of it.
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Arghh, way too many confusing factor in there
My problem has been that when I tried it, I was short on time and was just trying to demo TF at a Sim Convention. Therefore, I just launched the TE while in the air and then I enabled TF at altitude. (That should be possible in the real F16 as far as I know. It was in Falcon AF.)
I have no clue why you use Falcon AF, but you seem to compare the AF behaviour with BMS. Sorry to say but that’s like comparing apple and pears
It’s definitely possible in the F-16, but just like in BMS if your switches are not set correctly (Ralt or TFR mode) you’ll get flyups as wellI’ll try again and check the Radar Altimeter though I’m pretty sure I had it on and it was reading 5,000’ or maybe higher where I dropped
again, that’s inconsistent. The radar altimeter can’t read 5000. Your altimeter reads 5000 on the pressure settings it’s set to. The HUD at 5000 is barometric unless your HUD panel switch is specifically set to Radar ALT.
if it’s set to AUTO (default position), it will read barometric unless you’re very low and then it will switch to radar alt. and that limit is way under 5000. Out of memory it’s below 1500 or even 1000 feet
So simply looking at your altitude readout you can’t tell if your Radar Alt is ON or stby or OFF. The Ralt switch is a mistakes many BMS pilot do and you woudn’t be the first to report a bugged TFR because the Ralt wasn’t ONHaving said that, I would think that there should be a way to reset that situation in the air if you make the sort of mistake that I did. Using FLCS reset would seem like too drastic of a thing to do while in flight for a real F16. (Or is it something real F16 pilots can do?) If it turns out that the Radar Altimeter is on, then I think there is something else wrong. When Betty was “bitching” none of the buttons on the TF would respond. That’s why I was thinking there is a bug as I couldn’t change a thing on the TF via the MFD.
There is a way, but not using the FLCS reset which fixes a FLCS fault. Here what you’re trying to fix is pilot error And there’s no reset pilot button in the F-16
What you need to do is paddle override (and that one MUST be programmed correctly as a /Hold feature or even better a DX feature) to regain control, fix your switches and then release your paddle and maybe reset the TFR. Most of the time it’s press paddle, keep it depressed, correct the issue, release paddle and you’ll be fine
The FLCS reset has really nothing to do with the error you saw indeed it’s way too drastic (and won’t fix your issue if the Ralt switch is OFF - of if your TFR is outside operating limits)I’ll read up and do some more experimentation. If you have time to repeat what I did by engaging TF for the first time while at altitude (with RAlt on) and you get the same “stuck” and repeating Betty messages and the TF MFD buttons don’t function, then you will have repeated the situation.
I do it all the time, did it three days ago while reviewing the TFR mission. from 2500feet engaged the TFR and the thing just went to set altitude and started following terrain with no issue at all.
The betty call you have is because your TFR is going bananas and induce flyups to keep you safe. There are multiple reasons the TFR goes bananas (see the limits in the training manuals and checklists and you’ll cover most of them)BTW, at one of the conventions, I demo’d this problem to Chris “String” Link who flys BMS more than I do and he tried doing the same TE, dropping in at altitude and then turning on TF. It did the same thing for him and TF wouldn’t respond on the MFD and Betty was stuck “bitchin”. We just had to abort the sim to get out of it.
you probably are both doing the same mistakes
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It gets even more exciting when you start practising attacks using the TFR. The first time you try Roll & Pull in the dark when you get a TF-FAIL really gets your attention
It’s easy to get overwhelmed when you first start using the TFR in a combat or even practice scenario, which is why there really is no substitute for reading up on the -34 and Training Manual chapters first. When you can prosecute your attack at night, even when it’s raining you will be pretty satisfied though.
Remember the BMS LANTIRN system is modelled as closely as currently possible to the real thing, with input from guys still using this system for real. It may not be as intuitive as you’d like it to be or behave as it did in previous Falcon versions, but it is the closest you can get to doing it for real without putting your life on the line.
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RD,
No, I don’t fly FalconAF any more. I’ve been spending most of my time pit building since I quit flying AF a long time ago. (I’m sure you’ve seen my posts on VP as I build.) However, I’m starting to get close to a built state that will allow me to start flying my pit with BMS and learning it. Since I’m approaching that state, I’ve just starting to spend more time on this Forum to better understand BMS.
Just had a couple of cups of coffee and spent more time in the manuals your recommended as well as the Dash-1 and Dash-34 manuals. :munch:
WOW!! I now see that BMS is SOOOO much more realistic than AF!!! :woohoo: :hail:
Obviously I need to spend a lot more time in all the manuals in the BMS Doc directory. Basically I guess you could say :rtfm:
:rofl:I will RATFM – Read All the Fine Manuals – a lot more. It is now clear that what I knew via my experience with AF a long time ago is often just largely wrong. I know I’m going to really enjoy going through all of these BMS Docs, reading them and flying the Training TEs. I just hope that I get my pit completely built so I can focus on flying a lot more before this damn super aggressive Brain Cancer that I’m fighting kills me.
Again, thanks for the advice. Very helpful.
G. Beau “Willy” Williamson
P.S. I probably should have set up my Account here with a Username of “Willy” so it more closely matches what I’m using on other F16 Forums.
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Great news Willy ( I know it was you )
I’m glad you had a glimpse of how different and more accurate BMS is compared to your past experienceFlying the pit in BMS is all what it is about the attention to detail is amazing but the consequence of that is the steep learning curve
You will enjoy it big time and you know where I am if you need helpCheers
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RD,
BTW, it was the advances of BMS several years ago that was what launched me into pit building.
Way back when BMS first announced support for MFD displays on other LCD’s, I was like YIPPPEEE!!! I’m gonna build me a pit with MFD’s!!!
That building lead to a desktop instrument panel but I wasn’t completely happy with that, which got me into building a full sized cockpit of wood and then now to the metal “real” F16 pit using a lot of the real F16 items. All of that has taken years to get to where I am but I’m getting close to actually starting back to learning and fly BMS. To do so it is obvious that I need to do a lot of reading of posts on this forum (just started that) and reading BMS docs and flying.
Thanks again.
Willy
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I wouldn’t throw out that old original F4 manual just yet
yes, ignore everything in there about keybinds and avionics technical details, but it’s got a lot of interesting stuff on basic tactics, maneuvers, planning, and the like. It’s a good read. Written by Pete Bonanni (Art of the Kill video)
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As I said very often, the stuff we implement in the BMS docs with every new version of BMS render the old manuals more and more useless, it’s funny you showed these very pages as the next iteration will specifically emphasize my point
an example: if you read that F4 manual and try the same in BMS 4.33 (like bracket or single side offset, you’ll be very confused with the AI reaction So my opinion stands, these stuff are outdated and need to be documented according to the updates of BMS, not according to something that was released 20 years ago.
Another example:
that trail images in the F4 manual was wrong for the Falcon 4.0 released version. That ladder is wrong as well there are many more mistakes like this
(which doesn’t reduce the respect I have for hat document one bit) and there are many items that were correct for the Falcon 4.0 but are utterly confusing in nowadays BMSbetter stick to the document suite relevant to the sim you fly rather than it’s respected ancester.
The curve is steep enough. if you want to make it even steeper by reading outdated docs, that’s your choice, but new guys shouldn’t take that route at all !! -
fair enough… but what about the other 95% of the stuff I posted? Still a lot of interesting things in there.
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we can just stick with the small sample of pages I posted:
practical explanations of the FLOT, beaming, AAA fire, BFM, the slice, uses of various formations
just curious, where is the counterpart in the new manuals?
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Thanks for your input fellas. Again sorry for the delayed reply. I used to get a reminder in my email box but that stopped for some reason now!