Alpha Jet A Project
-
i think FM masters need a complete 3d model first to tweak its fm.dat file.
For sure at least regarding LOD positions , but CL, CG, Alfa and Beta slide slips can be done without new 3D model correct?
Working on the 3D models but at least i will have a few more months until ready. Right now the .dat file is referred to the old model already existing.
-
For sure at least regarding LOD positions , but CL, CG, Alfa and Beta slide slips can be done without new 3D model correct?
yeah but for AFM, CL/CG need final model for measurement.
-
i think FM masters need a complete 3d model first to tweak its fm.dat file.
I have friend named Starfighter that’s interested in building a F-106 I see you have one built already maybe you two can work out some magic.
-
yeah but for AFM, CL/CG need final model for measurement.
Ok so just to sum up.
I’m currently changing the OFM data file. If i go for the AFM data file for the Alpha Jet i don’t need to change any values of the CG CL etc…. in the OFM?
AFM are crazy incomprehensible for me
Any input on what to change or any guide?
-
Ok so just to sum up.
I’m currently changing the OFM data file. If i go for the AFM data file for the Alpha Jet i don’t need to change any values of the CG CL etc…. in the OFM?
AFM are crazy incomprehensible for me
Any input on what to change or any guide?
You really need to get MAV-JP, Topolo or Falcas ( I don’t know if He is still active) to look at it once its flyable.
I did a rough SU-27/30 FM/AFM a few years back, its a lot of work if its not your trade, even if it is, its still a lot of work.
-
Any input for the .dat file?
I should still have paper checklists and some figures around, but not that much helpful for all the .dat requirement.
(apart form several close pictures of the cockpit if you need some is this (but sorry its in french)… as you can see … not that much as I said.
I recall you have some experience with this or no?
-
You really need to get MAV-JP, Topolo or Falcas ( I don’t know if He is still active) to look at it once its flyable.
I did a rough SU-27/30 FM/AFM a few years back, its a lot of work if its not your trade, even if it is, its still a lot of work.
Thank man
Any helpful input regarding your experience with the SU-27 project that still applies to my new project?
-
Any input for the .dat file?
I should still have paper checklists and some figures around, but not that much helpful for all the .dat requirement.
(apart form several close pictures of the cockpit if you need some is this (but sorry its in french)… as you can see … not that much as I said.
… but well … 15y ago.Dont worry Dee-Jay
You and Radium will my beta tester Pilots
If its good for you its good for me
-
Hello,
very nice project here !
I see that you are doing the French version ! great !
Suggestion : Alpha-Jets done for simulation always lacked CTH (collimateur tête haute) assembly, because they were based from Patrouille de France pictures.
I will also help you to make a custom CTH sight…
Cheers,
Radium
-
Hello,
very nice project here !
I see that you are doing the French version ! great !
Suggestion : Alpha-Jets done for simulation always lacked CTH (collimateur tête haute) assembly, because they were based from Patrouille de France pictures.
http://www.alphajide.fr/photos/alphajet-cockpit-04_moy.png
I will also help you to make a custom CTH sight…
Cheers,
Radium
I will do both A and E external model.
Internal PIT only for the E model for now. But of course it will be relatively simple to transform a E model PIT into a A model.
Hope to collaborate with you Radium and as always thank you
-
I will do both A and E external model.
Internal PIT only for the E model for now. But of course it will be relatively simple to transform a E model PIT into a A model.
Hope to collaborate with you Radium and as always thank you
I hereby sincerely and willingly offer you my help !
-
Hello Everyone
Finally my Alpha Jet E/A projects its kicking in
New 3D model its under construction and a new Cockpit as Well
WOW !!! Very nice! :bowd:
Cheers, :yo:
LS -
As far as I’m concerned…
OFM need a complete rework to get a correct flight envelope and performance fitting (climb rate, turn rate, fuel flow…), I’ve all what is needed (and more) for that but time (to build a correct OFM from what I have requires usually 200/250 men.hours of work and I fear being alone, so it’s around half a year for me).
Then come the AFM topic, I do not know why you want to build an AFM because AFM file allow to customize the FLCS flavor of an a/c, and AJet never had any FLCS, on this topic, we can only rely on Mav if he think an AFM can help (but don’t hope being able to reproduce the trim behavior, for example, of an non FLCS a/c)
Last point, the 3Dmodel impact on the OFM file need few works (5/10 hours), so FM identification and modeling can be done in //.I’ve few other birds on the fire ATM, but as soon as I’ve complete them, I’ll start to work on AJet.
PS: you model and pit look very promizing, I really hope you will be able to complete this project.
-
As far as I’m concerned…
OFM need a complete rework to get a correct flight envelope and performance fitting (climb rate, turn rate, fuel flow…), I’ve all what is needed (and more) for that but time (to build a correct OFM from what I have requires usually 200/250 men.hours of work and I fear being alone, so it’s around half a year for me).
Then come the AFM topic, I do not know why you want to build an AFM because AFM file allow to customize the FLCS flavor of an a/c, and AJet never had any FLCS, on this topic, we can only rely on Mav if he think an AFM can help (but don’t hope being able to reproduce the trim behavior, for example, of an non FLCS a/c)
Last point, the 3Dmodel impact on the OFM file need few works (5/10 hours), so FM identification and modeling can be done in //.I’ve few other birds on the fire ATM, but as soon as I’ve complete them, I’ll start to work on AJet.
PS: you model and pit look very promizing, I really hope you will be able to complete this project.
you could create a AFM -with NFBW aero module, like the A10, but it is extremly difficult, and the result can be disapointing.
HOWEVER.
It will be always better to create AFM , noeone can really fly OFM those days , everything is shit.
As always, first create good OFM for performance , then AFM for handling.
AFM alphajet can be based on the AV8 one
and yes topolo, you can do a lot of things with AFM files, and by tweaking them, i could even desactivate the FLCS behind ,but that requires you tweak the AV8 / F16 AFM to be stable and not unstable….
that is doable
-
you could create a AFM -with NFBW aero module, like the A10, but it is extremly difficult, and the result can be disapointing.
HOWEVER.
It will be always better to create AFM , noeone can really fly OFM those days , everything is shit.
As always, first create good OFM for performance , then AFM for handling.
AFM alphajet can be based on the AV8 one
and yes topolo, you can do a lot of things with AFM files, and by tweaking them, i could even desactivate the FLCS behind ,but that requires you tweak the AV8 / F16 AFM to be stable and not unstable….
that is doable
Topolo - You are not alone , i will continue to improve OFM file from what i have but i don’t have accurate AirFoil data for the Alpha Jet neither CD, alfa and beta indexes. Do you have any documentations or tutorials how to read and interpret the data file?
Mav-jp- You are correct :), even the AJet will benefit from AFM data. No FLCS but LG damper and suspension and other non FLCS related data. And thank you for the tip. I will try to use AV8 as a baseline for the Ajet.
Anyone need the 3DS max files that i have now?
Here i can find accurate databases for the CL and CD indexes?
-
Topolo - You are not alone , i will continue to improve OFM file from what i have but i don’t have accurate AirFoil data for the Alpha Jet neither CD, alfa and beta indexes. Do you have any documentations or tutorials how to read and interpret the data file?
Here i can find accurate databases for the CL and CD indexes?OFM file (for what I’m concerned) is mainly (if not only) CL(M,AoA), CD(M,AoA) a Thurst(M,Z) tables, so I’m curious (and here, believe me, it is really not sarcastic, just really curious, because public data are really not easy to find) to know how and from which data you are improving AJet OFM
First solution, you have RL aero data (usually measured in wind tunnel and then remapped using test flight, like it does exists for some US or Sovient a/c) and engine performance charts (mix of engine test bed and test filght).
Second solution: yo have the AJet Performance Charts (EM charts + Climb charts + Acceleration charts + Range/Endurance) and a computational methodology to reverse engineer the aero and thrust laws from performance curves
Which of the two are you following ?PS1: Airfoil data will give you near to nothing on the full a/c aero, so do not spend to much time on this if you want to fit the flight envelope and perf.
PS2: @Mav I know what you can do with an AFM, I just want to mention that it does not seems to me really affordable to build an AFM for a non FLCS a/c all over sub and transonic domain that will give to the a/c the RL flavor. The best we can do IMO is to fit performance with an OFM, then give a more pleasant handling (but not a more realistic handling) -
OFM file (for what I’m concerned) is mainly (if not only) CL(M,AoA), CD(M,AoA) a Thurst(M,Z) tables, so I’m curious (and here, believe me, it is really not sarcastic, just really curious, because public data are really not easy to find) to know how and from which data you are improving AJet OFM
First solution, you have RL aero data (usually measured in wind tunnel and then remapped using test flight, like it does exists for some US or Sovient a/c) and engine performance charts (mix of engine test bed and test filght).
Second solution: yo have the AJet Performance Charts (EM charts + Climb charts + Acceleration charts + Range/Endurance) and a computational methodology to reverse engineer the aero and thrust laws from performance curves
Which of the two are you following ?None really
I used the G4 (he closest plane in the database i guess) as a baseline for CD and CL. And from there i tweak bit by bit until performance and thrust are close from other Alpha Jet Sims (X-PLANE and DCS). But again i do not have accurate data and since airfoils don’t match the database inputs they are useless. Also Ajet its a particular case of 2 NACA airfoils in one wing. The root and tip wings have diferente CL and CD indexes.Do you have any idea how to improve this?
-
O
PS2: @Mav I know what you can do with an AFM, I just want to mention that it does not seems to me really affordable to build an AFM for a non FLCS a/c all over sub and transonic domain that will give to the a/c the RL flavor. The best we can do IMO is to fit performance with an OFM, then give a more pleasant handling (but not a more realistic handling)as i was saying if you tweak the Cm data to be stable , then we can totally remove the FLCS and you will have what you want, with correct triming behavior etc…
-
FYI , in AFM data
1 #has NASA Model
Removes any FLCS interaction, you have direct control (see A10 AFM)
-
as i was saying if you tweak the Cm data to be stable , then we can totally remove the FLCS and you will have what you want, with correct triming behavior etc…
I do not say it is not possible, just say it’s not affordable