VR with BMS and vorpX….
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omgomgomg I just found this, read every post, cant even tell how excited I am. I wanted to buy VR later, but daamn, am I tempted now.
Regarding MFDs jaginess, they are rendered with different resolution, selectable in options. Tried changing it?
Oh my goodness! What have we started here?! DO NOT BUY an expensive VR headset expecting BMS in VR to look good and perform well as of now…. IMHO The FOV causes notable warped image panning that detracts from immersion, and the 1:1 tracking is terrible, no matter what tracking option you choose - even with OpenTrack and it’s Oculus tracking solution for the IRLED’s on the HMD, it is a poor approximation compared to proper VR games/sims with head look control like TrackIR, etc.
VR for BMS (proper) will come someday… until then, unless you want to put on rose colored glasses and call these janky methods we try “playable”, then you should avoid investing in VR solely for BMS. I’ve tried it all, not just BMS in VR, but many non-VR games using everything from VorpX to TriDef to Virtual Desktop, and others, and was happy to see these Proof of Concept tests work…. but I have a decent rig & have been flying for ten years, and if I called this “playable” or “enjoyable” as a VR experience, I’d be lying out my ass.
Things you can expect with these DIY versions of BMS in VR:
- Greatly lowered Situational Awareness due to difficulty reading gauges, text on switches, symbols on HUD or RWR, etc. - I tried the mod, maybe it’s my Rift CV1, but it didn’t improve enough for me to call it “readable”, could be different for different people/different HMD/different rig?
- BVR (Beyond Visual Range) is a term you can now apply to Dogfights - if you think it’s hard to spot a dot on a field of blue on a PC monitor, you’ve surely not seen BMS in VR yet…
- FOV required creates serious warping of imagery and a very odd feel when panning/looking around the cockpit.
- Requires a large degree of technical compromises, including moving Radios menu or configuring and using Voice Controls (AVCS4 FTW! )
- Pain in the rear Mouse Clicking – hold your head very stiff, you’ll need it to make sure you’re mouse can reach that switch in a pinch while the FOV pans around - like TrackIR, but no “pause” where you can swap to mouse-panning for cockpit interaction.
- GUI for 2D follows face, rather than a board up front (in some VR DIY methods) - like a dog with a bag stuck over it’s head, you’ll need to compromise there, too - set 2D up before putting on HMD, hope everything remains as set up once HMD is on and you’re at the RAMP
- Say goodbye to any tools outside BMS (Kneeboard/WDP on second monitor/tablet) or get rather technical and get those in the cockpit with some modification, or other method(s).
Even if you consider all these things, and set things up in a functional manner, you’ll never get past the core issues of visibility and situational awareness, and the ability to quickly interact with several switches in the cockpit.
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Can someone upload a vorpx profile for BMS 4.34, I am keen to try it.
Pretty please…
Thanks in advance
Here’s mine.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/6k36flicsnq3846/Falcon%20BMS.vpp?dl=0
I think I copied it from FlightSimX and changed the executable. That’s about it. BeachAV8R may have a better one. -
@Wheelchock. Thanks I did the same but it didn’t seem to work for me.
Looking forward to trying your profile. -
@semlerPDX.
“Oh my goodness! What have we started here?”
Well I have a VR headset and I know Falcon BMS will not be VR capable until after some Falcon weeks. Nonetheless, I want to explore my new toy and see what can be done even if it is not true VR.
Close eyes
“DCS has some fully functional VR cockpits.”
“'War Thunder has a 3D rendition” two projected screens
Vorpx adds 3D like War Thunder to Take on helicopters (which I have tested) and other games.Open eyes
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“'War Thunder has a 3D rendition” two projected screens
oh dude - War Thunder is hands down the best flight experience in VR right now (and for some years, too)!! Can read gauges and text clearly, even interact with the main GUI very well. My PvP dogfighting game has a near unfair advantage when I’m flying in VR in WT. Got the Buttkicker Gamer 2, feels like I’m there!! And Elite: Dangerous being the best Space Sim/Game so far, too… One day, BMS in VR (proper) is coming… “hold on to your butts”
And yea, my point was not to purchase VR specifically for BMS (yet), because I didn’t want anyone to feel like we’re saying our current VR DIY attempts are something they are not. I feel the DIY every time I toy with VR in non-native VR games, well a couple work perfect, but the smaller the game, the better chance at it working in DIY through VorpX or TriDef, etc etc. The good ones, we can only hope for native VR support soon.
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Greatly lowered Situational Awareness due to difficulty reading gauges, text on switches, symbols on HUD or RWR, etc. - I tried the mod, maybe it’s my Rift CV1, but it didn’t improve enough for me to call it “readable”, could be different for different people/different HMD/different rig?
BVR (Beyond Visual Range) is a term you can now apply to Dogfights - if you think it’s hard to spot a dot on a field of blue on a PC monitor, you’ve surely not seen BMS in VR yet…
I think this would be largely solved with HP reverb, no?
The screen in reverb has 4 pixels for each of Oculus CV1 (technically missing 240 vertical pixels, granted)
1080x1200 vs 2160x2160
9.81 vs 18.94 pixels per inch -
It very well might improve those types of things to a degree, I wonder if it would be able to eliminate it. I get that the quality of the lenses combined with the display are what determine clarity and the minimum size of an object at distance, but not sure if this removes the issue with far objects when they become just a few pixels in size and where that is visible clearly on a PC monitor but no so in an HMD.
I like that the HP Reverb there has a similar form to my preferred setup, so I could put over-the-ear headphones over it.Even in 2020, VR is still a new-ish thing, and with a few choices out there, I don’t think anyone could say that any one VR headset is THE headset to buy - but if I had the money these days, and was just buying VR, I’d probably toss it at that Reverb… (haven’t read many recent reviews, so that’s a poor first impression opinion).
Won’t be too many more years before wireless is the standard, when streaming video latency gets low enough to allow a powerful PC to drive a wireless HMD. As a CV1 ‘early adopter’ of VR, I’m still waiting for the true “second generation” of VR, would hope something like the Reverb fits that category, but I don’t have any money burning a hole in my wallet to try it out, so I’ll hush up about “how good” VR is these days, and relegate it to my experience in the CV1 so far. I have friends at VG with more modern HMD’s but they’ve given me similar opinions about games I also found to be janky and “not ready for VR primetime” though we’ve never gotten together to do some side-by-side testing.
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Small question here:
Is the resolution of the VR Glasses seen above are for each eye, or both? -
I-Hawk: Per eye!
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OK thanx!
So I assume running a HP Reverb will not be cheap on GPU. It’s let’s say a bit more (not critical) pixels number than a 4K monitor, but we are talking about 2 separate render passes… that will not be cheaper than 1 4K monitor I think.
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Yea, you might want a GFX card that costs nearly as much as the HP Reverb if you want access to the higher performance of that HMD - anything much less would likely struggle in areas
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I recently heard military use VR simulator draws HUD/MFD font size larger than real A/C to overcome lack of resolution.
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Yea, you might want a GFX card that costs nearly as much as the HP Reverb if you want access to the higher performance of that HMD - anything much less would likely struggle in areas
Yea it’s not a problem, I already aim for a RTX-3080 assuming there will be a good reason for me to go VR when that GPU will be ready.
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Yea it’s not a problem, I already aim for a RTX-3080 assuming there will be a good reason for me to go VR when that GPU will be ready.
it will allow you to see cows in 3D indeed
you are such a tease !!!
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I would only try it if you have vorpx already, as stated by the op vorpx can only be recommended if you are interested in trying it for the heck of it; results are mixed. If I understand correctly BeachAV8R is running 4.33 which seems to hook fine for more people. Migbuster got 4.34 to hook and he was kind to share his vorpx/bms/nvidia settings with me but I cannot get it to pick up on my rig and have no idea why. No guarantees!
Yeah…I spent a good part of the morning a couple of days ago trying to get 4.34 to hook to it and no luck. I tried a base install of 4.34 with no patches, and then the patched versions. I tried different Windows compatibility modes, resolutions, refresh rates, etc…as many possible types of combinations I could and still could not get 4.34 to go into 3D mode (I just get a dark screen once the mission launches).
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Going from head tracking to VR is like going from no head tracking at all to to some type of head tracking. Especially in WVR scenarios since you are actually looking where the bandit is. Makes it absolutely natural to know where you need to go.
Yes. VR is really a neat tool with 1:1 tracking and it makes you realize how physical a workout it is working to keep targets in sight in real life. And that is without heat, vibration, G-forces, and all the gear that fighter pilots wear. No wonder it is as exhausting as it is reported to be!
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Regarding VR in general - the Reverb was the point at which I would heartily recommend VR with very few reservations. The resolution of the Reverb crosses over the threshold for where you are sacrificing quite a bit and instead are on the positive side of the equation. Here is a video showing the resolution in the Ka-50 a couple days ago…taken through the lens of my Reverb. Keeping in mind that I’m just squeezing an iPhone up to the lens, so the real FOV is very much larger, clarity is better, and everything looks better when you are actually in the headset.
Specifically regarding Falcon 4 - I would agree that you shouldn’t buy VR hardware specifically for the Falcon 4 experience, it is definitely more of a side benefit/interest. I’ll be happy to see when VR becomes “native” to Falcon 4 sometime in the future.
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Can’t read the right MFD 1:32
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Can’t read the right MFD 1:32
Yea, aside from that it looks pretty amazing and high FPS for an HMD. Was that blurriness on the R-MFD just due to the iPhone or do you need to get a bit close to that display to make out the white lettered font?
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Yeah…I spent a good part of the morning a couple of days ago trying to get 4.34 to hook to it and no luck. I tried a base install of 4.34 with no patches, and then the patched versions. I tried different Windows compatibility modes, resolutions, refresh rates, etc…as many possible types of combinations I could and still could not get 4.34 to go into 3D mode (I just get a dark screen once the mission launches).
I can hook 4.34 U2 just fine……but didn’t get much luck with SF2 / FE2…they kept crashing on me… bloody computers!