SAMS
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This may be silly questions but maybe I’m not the only one that’s had this evaluation afterward but here goes:
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Does the the new SAM updates since the first release allow for the operators learn overtime from human interaction?
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In the tac-ref, it says that the acquisition search radars for SAM’s also work as GCI as well as EW for SAM’s?
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I would suggest you be more specific on “updates since the first release”
What updates do you have installed… and after which one you installed did you notice a changed behavior? -
I would suggest you be more specific on “updates since the first release”
What updates do you have installed… and after which one you installed did you notice a changed behavior?I’ve got the latest updates and didn’t notice until after U4.
The things I’ve noticed are like them using popcorn, then I’ll get shot at from behind. My last flight I was around so.e sa-15s and the sa2 didn’t engage me until they knew I was in the sa15 envelope to force me down. Well it worked and got hit by an sa15.
Not that I’m complaining, it’s pretty nice actually.
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That’s exactly how the improved IADS (Integrated Air Defence System) should behave. This has gone a long way since many iterations of Falcon. They are using tactics like blinking and are nowadays much more dangerous.
One extreme example I experienced was when I got multiple launches in the same second: in Kuwait SA-5, SA-2 and SA-3 launched synchronously at me.
Also, the SAMs watch your heading. If you fly toward them directly, they “fear” an attack and stay silent. If you have another angle at them it’s more probable they lock up their Fire Control Radar. I also experienced 3 different SA-8 sites, always the ones on my nose went silent, the others tracked me and launched.
I also suspect the AI is cheating a bit, since they seem to know when I’m on a SEAD/DEAD/have HARMs on my wings beside the bombs and stay silent. The next time I enter the area just loaded with bombs hell breaks loose.
And they are aware if they are alone or in a strong network. Isolated SAMs after some SEAD missions are unlikely to activate their radar.
EDIT:
It’s the case that BMS seems not to have a real IADS, but SAMs often behave as if:
https://www.benchmarksims.org/forum/showthread.php?36536-IADS-4-34&highlight=iADS -
I also suspect the AI is cheating a bit, since they seem to know when I’m on a SEAD/DEAD/have HARMs on my wings beside the bombs and stay silent.
Nope. There is nothing in the code telling anything about mission type, or weapons or anything like that. Got to be a pure “feeling”.
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That’s exactly how the improved IADS (Integrated Air Defence System) should behave. This has gone a long way since many iterations of Falcon. They are using tactics like blinking and are nowadays much more dangerous.
One extreme example I experienced was when I got multiple launches in the same second: in Kuwait SA-5, SA-2 and SA-3 launched synchronously at me.
Also, the SAMs watch your heading. If you fly toward them directly, they “fear” an attack and stay silent. If you have another angle at them it’s more probable they lock up their Fire Control Radar. I also experienced 3 different SA-8 sites, always the ones on my nose went silent, the others tracked me and launched.
I also suspect the AI is cheating a bit, since they seem to know when I’m on a SEAD/DEAD/have HARMs on my wings beside the bombs and stay silent. The next time I enter the area just loaded with bombs hell breaks loose.
And they are aware if they are alone or in a strong network. Isolated SAMs after some SEAD missions are unlikely to activate their radar.
EDIT:
It’s the case that BMS seems not to have a real IADS, but SAMs often behave as if:
https://www.benchmarksims.org/forum/showthread.php?36536-IADS-4-34&highlight=iADSInteresting, note that this was the vanilla Korea campaign this happened in. BMS has made it more challenging just to fly against SAM battalions alone, I love it and the DC engine makes it to where I can fly SEAD/DEAD alone and still contribute thru success to winning the campaign. I need to refine my tactics, especially when using HARM because the closest thing to HTS in my view is HAS mode.
This is so fun, we should fly a campaign together sometime and make it strictly against ADA.
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Nope. There is nothing in the code telling anything about mission type, or weapons or anything like that. Got to be a pure “feeling”.
That’s very interesting because it really feels like there is an IADS. I think those simultaneous launches can occur through clever positioning by theater makers of i.e an SA-2 overlapping with SA-5, SA-3 overlapping with SA-2 and so on.
But what about them breaking lock and go silent when I point toward them? could there be other factors like a lower radar signature when they look at my nose? In SEAD/DEAD I take the sites on my beam as soon as the FCR locks me on and I fired my HARM to prevent them from going silent and it works pretty good. I thought it could be my vector, but could it be my RCS? -
I think they won’t tell you the SAM logic, or it would become AI abuse. All DJ mentioned was about loadout.
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There are SAMS tactics. But no code cheat for AI to know what are SEAD flights and/or what are flights their weapons.
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According to my own experience. i found if you are a single ship, SA-10 will shot you once you touch into his defense zone. But if you are accompanied by your wingman or other human F-16s, SA-10 will delay the shoot even snooze its
Flap lip radar to let you come closer. I think the purpose is to avoid you or your wingman firing AGM-88.So if you are on a weasel mission with HARM. Don’t let your wingman with you. Make enough separation more than 30Nm i think.
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I think they won’t tell you the SAM logic, or it would become AI abuse. All DJ mentioned was about loadout.
No one as answered as to whether or not the SAM EW radars help with GCI for the enemy. Would that be another “spotted flag” like other enemy units like infantry or do SAM GCI actually help vector fighters on my flights position?
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Why would we answer? Do you really think we’d like to spoil lots of your efforts?
Fly your mission, draw your own conclusions.
EDIT: Let me give an answer: Depends on skills / Depends on team conditions / Depends on country / Depends comm network status / Depends on moral … etc … Yes / No / Maybe …
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No one as answered as to whether or not the SAM EW radars help with GCI for the enemy. Would that be another “spotted flag” like other enemy units like infantry or do SAM GCI actually help vector fighters on my flights position?
I can’t answer the technical background. But if you eliminate the blue radar coverage on the map, the enemy has huge problems getting fighters into the air and intercepting packages. I’d say they are blinded.
But I also had this question in mind when beside the FCRs in SAM units the search radars were added. But hits on those count as damage to the unit of your DEAD. So it’s worth taking them out. The same with EWR stations: They are high value targets and have an effect on enemy air activity (it’s also worth taking out headquarters).
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I can’t answer the technical background. But if you eliminate the blue radar coverage on the map, the enemy has huge problems getting fighters into the air and intercepting packages. I’d say they are blinded.
But I also had this question in mind when beside the FCRs in SAM units the search radars were added. But hits on those count as damage to the unit of your DEAD. So it’s worth taking them out. The same with EWR stations: They are high value targets and have an effect on enemy air activity (it’s also worth taking out headquarters).
The blue low altitude radars also transition to the high altitude radars as well right? I could be wrong though.
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The blue low altitude radars also transition to the high altitude radars as well right? I could be wrong though.
Like the view for air defenses, they basically are the same. Just for different altitudes. Compare i.e. for an SA-2 site in air defense view.
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Like the view for air defenses, they basically are the same. Just for different altitudes. Compare i.e. for an SA-2 site in air defense view.
Ok, well I’ve noticed that airbases and depots and army bases also have blue because of those radars also, so whatever is blue other than dedicated EWR would take a looooong time.