BMS Other Fighters Mafia (BMSOFM) Journal
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Hi, Compadre. Thanks for the further links!
I’m aware the Bug works differently in landing procedures, indexer differences , etc. For example, if you look at a NATOPS diagram it gives “speed hints” based on % rpm, not airspeed. Keep the tips coming, as I intend to get to that in PB’s checklists and procedures phase.Yeah…generally it’s AOA and fuel flow that they key to. Other than that it’s all on-speed.
Learn to do a “Navy flare” too - arrest sink rate with power, and then snap to idle just before touchdown. I had to have a former USN Agressor guy clue me on this technique before I could quit snapping the gear off of the Viper at touchdown!
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Basic question, but how do you switch between control setups to move between the F16 and F18? I use the Alternative launcher.
Or, do I have to remap each time?
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You can actually save and load key binding/setting profiles within BMS Setup at startup…I do it all the time when I’m noodling setups or changing controllers.
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Yeah…generally it’s AOA and fuel flow that they key to. Other than that it’s all on-speed.
Learn to do a “Navy flare” too - arrest sink rate with power, and then snap to idle just before touchdown. I had to have a former USN Agressor guy clue me on this technique before I could quit snapping the gear off of the Viper at touchdown!
REally… IF the “Squid” taught you flying an “Airforce” bird… then yo really sucked :twisted::twisted::twisted:
:uham: :wfish: :jaw: :flame:
p.s… sorry , I couldnt resist… you know it :rofl:
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He flew F-16Ns as an Aggressor/Instructor…but he was a Hornet driver at the time I got his advise. Incidentally, you can pretty much tell a Navy guy flying a Viper in the HUD tape because they land on-speed and not fast like the HUD bracket has you doing it.
…and…I’ve just flown a multitude of Trainers ranging from A-10 to KC-135 to Harrier to T-45A to…so it’s pretty easy to mix me up in a sim. You should have heard the S.O. chastising me for being a “Viper driver” the last time I went to the CV in a Trainer. I was flat on approach, but I hooked…much to his surprise - “wait…you caught a wire?”. What a laf-fest!
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I am missing something.
I can’t even use the UFC/ICP to call Tower or Departure to request taxi/takeoff without Com1/Com2/DCS/Rocker/DED etc.
Playing around with the buttons, ICP and the “DCS” on the left, I get a few different results, but can’t lock into a preset frequency and I don’t really know what I am doing.
Is there a guide to using the F18 cockpit? The Carrier Training document assumes this most basic of activities is known and the F18 Cockpit document has only callbacks and buttons listed, not how to use them.
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I am missing something.
I can’t even use the UFC/ICP to call Tower or Departure to request taxi/takeoff without Com1/Com2/DCS/Rocker/DED etc.
Playing around with the buttons, ICP and the “DCS” on the left, I get a few different results, but can’t lock into a preset frequency and I don’t really know what I am doing.
Is there a guide to using the F18 cockpit? The Carrier Training document assumes this most basic of activities is known and the F18 Cockpit document has only callbacks and buttons listed, not how to use them.
Hi, Mypc.Hopefully I can help with both your questions…Firstly , unfortunately there isn’t a way to load, or rather save, separate HOTAS settings using AL, since it works off the BMS Full keyfile. I anticipated someone asking your question, and may have a way ,but it’s a little complicated. So, what I trying to do with PB is give a Hornet Feel but be useable in the Viper. That’s why I’ve tested all the options presented in the Viper. I guess you could say I’m aiming more at people who mostly fly , or want to fly, the Bug. Me, I’m about 70/30 Hornet , and when I fly the Viper I’m using the options I describe here. So, to what extent you want to implement PB depends on which jet you want "the feel " of.
As for your next question, these are things I hope to help with in the next phase. For, now, if you RTFM how the Vipers comms work, all you’ll need to do is translate the Bug Cockpit into “Bug”.
In that regard…
SimICPCom1 and 2 are the Comm 1 and 2 buttons in the Viper, and the volumes are the volumes for 1(UHF) and 2(VHF). The radios in the RL Bug are quite a bit different, so here is another PB compromise.
The ADF Button is the DED
The on/off button turns on the ICP(UFC is Bugspeak). You have to turn it on for it to display.
So, to contact the tower in the Bug Load the DTC as usual, turn the volumes on , push SimICPCom1 and select Channel 2. then enter on the ICP/UFC. Then using the 4 posit. Comms switch you hopefully have on your HOTAS, transmit on Comms1(Comms UP on HOTAS) and you should be good to go , IF you’re Voice Attack
Sidenote: I will be starting the checklist phase soon, so let me ask you a question. What format, similar to our BMS manuals and docs, would be most helpful to you in learning the Bug? -
You should be able to save and load different key files in/from BMS Setup prior to launching a mission. I’ve done this many time in the past as I was trying out different controllers - I do my bindings and Save them with an appropriate name. I see no reason you couldn’t do this for any jet/controller combination you intend to fly, and then just load the right one from Setup prior to launching your mission.
I have Setup files for CH, Cougar, and Warthog controllers, forex.
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You should be able to save and load different key files in/from BMS Setup prior to launching a mission. I’ve done this many time in the past as I was trying out different controllers - I do my bindings and Save them with an appropriate name. I see no reason you couldn’t do this for any jet/controller combination you intend to fly, and then just load the right one from Setup prior to launching your mission.
I have Setup files for CH, Cougar, and Warthog controllers, forex.
Hi, Stevie. It sounds like you’ve done what i experimented with, so let’s compare notes. You are right that different keyfiles can be added within the UI. And if you go into BMS via the standard launcher they will work. However, Mypc uses the Alternate Launcher, and as we know AL defaults to BMS-Full. You can get around that by renaming whatever keyfile you want to BMS-Full, but to me that becomes complicated, when you’re talking about switching back and forth between jets.
Let’s use a specific example. In the Viper (on the Warthog HOTAS) my Hat 4 forward was CMS up. In our PB Hornet, it’s MRM as our “Select Aim-120 Emulator.” So, how do we make it so these can be switched on the fly, without remapping the HOTAS?
What I tried was to go into BMS via the standard launcher and select the BasicTM shifted Warthog keyfile that was in the installation. It loaded and I applied it. The problem is none of it worked in Instant Action. When I reloaded BMS-Full everything worked, but it was my new PB settings. For me , working with the standard UI has always been hit or miss. How would you do it?
Plus, for me at least, muscle memory is an issue! I don’t want to hop in the Viper and “select AMRAAM” when I want to fire a chaff, or vice versa.
Anyway, all the above is why I took the approach of making something with Bug Flavor, yet would work in the Viper. -
I guess my work-around was to not use the Alternative Launcher…so I’ve never noted any diff in behavior. I guess I’d point this out to the devs of the Alternative Launcher and try to get them to make it work for this case!
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I guess my work-around was to not use the Alternative Launcher…so I’ve never noted any diff in behavior. I guess I’d point this out to the devs of the Alternative Launcher and try to get them to make it work for this case!
Concur. Or, make AL so it can work with more then one keyfile.
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Before I get into the Checklists phase, since I don’t have a PDF creator, did this attachment work?
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If that was a general question, then no, it says invalid attachment. But I just wanted to let you know that you can create PDF files in Microsoft Word or free alternatives like LibreOffice. I occasionally fly navy, so looking forward to what you come up with
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Drtbkj , @jayb is right , you can make pdf with pretty much anything these days., as ms word for example. - or any pdf creator/converter from even .txt files. (well Adobe acrobat DC is the most expensive option)
But, the keys,… I never edit key-file (and save) with the UI , as it looses that nice formatting … I do it manually , by hand, in Notepad++ … it is kinda more work, but it pays off…
That applies if you don’t have lot of editing, and mostly you don’t … you don’t have to re-map whole key file right ?..
Read Key-file section in ‘BMS-technical manual’ , also check (docs\1. Input devices), it may look complicated at first but it really isn’t. You only need to keep track of few ‘callbacks’ you’ll want to change.
It is all really good explained so I don’t think you’ll have any problems , but if you get stuck just ‘whistle’…Cheers
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Mmmm… yes, ok, that too… I remember that tool , even fired it up once or twice , but, think is probably obsolete , given it was written for 4.32 from 2016. , in meantime ‘callbacks’ had gone through some changes , deletions , addons , … in short I’m not sure that tool is to date. - for most default commands/callbacks it will be even safe to use.
Again , if few changes to key-file , do it by hand, Notepad++ and kickin’.
Cheers
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Hi, yes, I use Alternate Launcher as it made everything (else) work simply and consistenly. I reset my mapping back to standard as I fly the F16 more. It would be good to have a way to switch easily with AL the way non-AL pilots do. I was wondering if OVGME or JSGME would help. I have both programs as they look useful, but I have never used either program. I will come back to HOTAS mapping after using the 18 a little more consistently.
In terms of training:
Getting to the preset channels, I’d expect something like this to be rewritten to reference the f18 hotspots/buttons: "To select preset #2, either hit “2” in the scratchpad then ENTR or use ICP “up arrow” then ENTR. " It wouldn’t need to be long, just the basics.
I’m not sure what I was doing with the UFC, but it wasn’t working the way I’d expect. I kept finding myself in the ALOW menu and on the LIST page. The top “vertical mode” button seemed to increment things by one (Rocker up?), one of the middle “vertical mode” buttons seemed to bring up list (LIST mode?). DSC didn’t seem to work consistently for right or left, or I was not pressing a hotspot accurately without a visual reference, or I only realised afterwards which was the DSC, as the 3d cockpit manual is in terms of keyboard callbacks, which I typically don’t see at all (perhaps because of my reliance on AL). ENTR didn’t seem to lock in an entry. I was in a rush (my first launch was exploratory, just looking around and I didn’t have pedals attached so I…decided to investigate gravity modelling off the side of the carrier. My second attempt going through Carrier Ops training more accurately I couldn’t switch frequencies) and got disoriented. I will have to try again paying more attention to hotspots.
While the Naval Ops manual has the keyboard commands listed, just a ready reference card of them would be helpful if you are putting together a quick guide. Once you’ve done it a few times, you provably just remember them or bind them, eg
Extend/retract wings - AFWingFoldToggle - SHIFT w (on US qwerty keyboards)
Launch bar toggle - <callback>- SHIFT CTL ALT L
Take off trim - <callback>- SHIFT CTL ALT t
Release Catapult - TriggerAFTriggerCatapult - SHIFT K
etcThe Naval Ops manual is good, but training documents should integrate key commands and cockpit orientation. i dont think you need to replicate the depth of the full BMS Naval Ops manual, but maybe a shorter, concise almost-checklist-type reference. And then you can add the further material you are collecting here - perhaps more in depth if you want where it isn’t explained in Naval Ops.</callback></callback>
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Mmmm… yes, ok, that too… I remember that tool , even fired it up once or twice , but, think is probably obsolete , given it was written for 4.32 from 2016. , in meantime ‘callbacks’ had gone through some changes , deletions , addons , … in short I’m not sure that tool is to date. - for most default commands/callbacks it will be even safe to use.
Again , if few changes to key-file , do it by hand, Notepad++ and kickin’.
Cheers
I still have it, yes - you have to keep the Callbacks updated…I haven’t played with it recently enough to try and do that, but I think you can. Also, I think when you pull in base keyfile to edit it would do that automatically? I need to look it over again.
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Getting to the preset channels, I’d expect something like this to be rewritten to reference the f18 hotspots/buttons: "To select preset #2, either hit “2” in the scratchpad then ENTR or use ICP “up arrow” then ENTR. " It wouldn’t need to be long, just the basics.
I’m not sure what I was doing with the UFC, but it wasn’t working the way I’d expect. I kept finding myself in the ALOW menu and on the LIST page. The top “vertical mode” button seemed to increment things by one (Rocker up?), one of the middle “vertical mode” buttons seemed to bring up list (LIST mode?). DSC didn’t seem to work consistently for right or left, or I was not pressing a hotspot accurately without a visual reference, or I only realised afterwards which was the DSC, as the 3d cockpit manual is in terms of keyboard callbacks, which I typically don’t see at all (perhaps because of my reliance on AL). ENTR didn’t seem to lock in an entry. I was in a rush (my first launch was exploratory, just looking around and I didn’t have pedals attached so I…decided to investigate gravity modelling off the side of the carrier. My second attempt going through Carrier Ops training more accurately I couldn’t switch frequencies) and got disoriented. I will have to try again paying more attention to hotspots.
If you don’t mind pressing keys on your keyboard, the DCS is your arrow keys also in the F-18. Whenever you end up knee-deep in the menus one press of arrow left brings you back to top default (CNI page) like in the F-16. In the BMS F-18 I have just used the arrow keys for DCS, the numpad keys for digits and numpad plus/minus for rocker. Works fine in the sense like the F-16 in that case.
May not please aficionados, but between carrier comms, actually landing the thing on the carrier and figuring out another flight model (trim and flaps are very important!) I do not mind that at least the DCS/DED is where I can reuse some F-16 knowledge. So at a later stage the F-18 may evolve and become more sophisticated and detached from the F-16 but for now there is enough to work with, for me at least.
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If you don’t mind pressing keys on your keyboard, the DCS is your arrow keys also in the F-18. Whenever you end up knee-deep in the menus one press of arrow left brings you back to top default (CNI page) like in the F-16. In the BMS F-18 I have just used the arrow keys for DCS, the numpad keys for digits and numpad plus/minus for rocker. Works fine in the sense like the F-16 in that case.
May not please aficionados, but between carrier comms, actually landing the thing on the carrier and figuring out another flight model (trim and flaps are very important!) I do not mind that at least the DCS/DED is where I can reuse some F-16 knowledge. So at a later stage the F-18 may evolve and become more sophisticated and detached from the F-16 but for now there is enough to work with, for me at least.
…if DCS has a DED they they are ded-wrong. There is no DED in a Hornet.