BMS Other Fighters Mafia (BMSOFM) Journal
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Mmmm… yes, ok, that too… I remember that tool , even fired it up once or twice , but, think is probably obsolete , given it was written for 4.32 from 2016. , in meantime ‘callbacks’ had gone through some changes , deletions , addons , … in short I’m not sure that tool is to date. - for most default commands/callbacks it will be even safe to use.
Again , if few changes to key-file , do it by hand, Notepad++ and kickin’.
Cheers
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Hi, yes, I use Alternate Launcher as it made everything (else) work simply and consistenly. I reset my mapping back to standard as I fly the F16 more. It would be good to have a way to switch easily with AL the way non-AL pilots do. I was wondering if OVGME or JSGME would help. I have both programs as they look useful, but I have never used either program. I will come back to HOTAS mapping after using the 18 a little more consistently.
In terms of training:
Getting to the preset channels, I’d expect something like this to be rewritten to reference the f18 hotspots/buttons: "To select preset #2, either hit “2” in the scratchpad then ENTR or use ICP “up arrow” then ENTR. " It wouldn’t need to be long, just the basics.
I’m not sure what I was doing with the UFC, but it wasn’t working the way I’d expect. I kept finding myself in the ALOW menu and on the LIST page. The top “vertical mode” button seemed to increment things by one (Rocker up?), one of the middle “vertical mode” buttons seemed to bring up list (LIST mode?). DSC didn’t seem to work consistently for right or left, or I was not pressing a hotspot accurately without a visual reference, or I only realised afterwards which was the DSC, as the 3d cockpit manual is in terms of keyboard callbacks, which I typically don’t see at all (perhaps because of my reliance on AL). ENTR didn’t seem to lock in an entry. I was in a rush (my first launch was exploratory, just looking around and I didn’t have pedals attached so I…decided to investigate gravity modelling off the side of the carrier. My second attempt going through Carrier Ops training more accurately I couldn’t switch frequencies) and got disoriented. I will have to try again paying more attention to hotspots.
While the Naval Ops manual has the keyboard commands listed, just a ready reference card of them would be helpful if you are putting together a quick guide. Once you’ve done it a few times, you provably just remember them or bind them, eg
Extend/retract wings - AFWingFoldToggle - SHIFT w (on US qwerty keyboards)
Launch bar toggle - <callback>- SHIFT CTL ALT L
Take off trim - <callback>- SHIFT CTL ALT t
Release Catapult - TriggerAFTriggerCatapult - SHIFT K
etcThe Naval Ops manual is good, but training documents should integrate key commands and cockpit orientation. i dont think you need to replicate the depth of the full BMS Naval Ops manual, but maybe a shorter, concise almost-checklist-type reference. And then you can add the further material you are collecting here - perhaps more in depth if you want where it isn’t explained in Naval Ops.</callback></callback>
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Mmmm… yes, ok, that too… I remember that tool , even fired it up once or twice , but, think is probably obsolete , given it was written for 4.32 from 2016. , in meantime ‘callbacks’ had gone through some changes , deletions , addons , … in short I’m not sure that tool is to date. - for most default commands/callbacks it will be even safe to use.
Again , if few changes to key-file , do it by hand, Notepad++ and kickin’.
Cheers
I still have it, yes - you have to keep the Callbacks updated…I haven’t played with it recently enough to try and do that, but I think you can. Also, I think when you pull in base keyfile to edit it would do that automatically? I need to look it over again.
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Getting to the preset channels, I’d expect something like this to be rewritten to reference the f18 hotspots/buttons: "To select preset #2, either hit “2” in the scratchpad then ENTR or use ICP “up arrow” then ENTR. " It wouldn’t need to be long, just the basics.
I’m not sure what I was doing with the UFC, but it wasn’t working the way I’d expect. I kept finding myself in the ALOW menu and on the LIST page. The top “vertical mode” button seemed to increment things by one (Rocker up?), one of the middle “vertical mode” buttons seemed to bring up list (LIST mode?). DSC didn’t seem to work consistently for right or left, or I was not pressing a hotspot accurately without a visual reference, or I only realised afterwards which was the DSC, as the 3d cockpit manual is in terms of keyboard callbacks, which I typically don’t see at all (perhaps because of my reliance on AL). ENTR didn’t seem to lock in an entry. I was in a rush (my first launch was exploratory, just looking around and I didn’t have pedals attached so I…decided to investigate gravity modelling off the side of the carrier. My second attempt going through Carrier Ops training more accurately I couldn’t switch frequencies) and got disoriented. I will have to try again paying more attention to hotspots.
If you don’t mind pressing keys on your keyboard, the DCS is your arrow keys also in the F-18. Whenever you end up knee-deep in the menus one press of arrow left brings you back to top default (CNI page) like in the F-16. In the BMS F-18 I have just used the arrow keys for DCS, the numpad keys for digits and numpad plus/minus for rocker. Works fine in the sense like the F-16 in that case.
May not please aficionados, but between carrier comms, actually landing the thing on the carrier and figuring out another flight model (trim and flaps are very important!) I do not mind that at least the DCS/DED is where I can reuse some F-16 knowledge. So at a later stage the F-18 may evolve and become more sophisticated and detached from the F-16 but for now there is enough to work with, for me at least.
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If you don’t mind pressing keys on your keyboard, the DCS is your arrow keys also in the F-18. Whenever you end up knee-deep in the menus one press of arrow left brings you back to top default (CNI page) like in the F-16. In the BMS F-18 I have just used the arrow keys for DCS, the numpad keys for digits and numpad plus/minus for rocker. Works fine in the sense like the F-16 in that case.
May not please aficionados, but between carrier comms, actually landing the thing on the carrier and figuring out another flight model (trim and flaps are very important!) I do not mind that at least the DCS/DED is where I can reuse some F-16 knowledge. So at a later stage the F-18 may evolve and become more sophisticated and detached from the F-16 but for now there is enough to work with, for me at least.
…if DCS has a DED they they are ded-wrong. There is no DED in a Hornet.
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Hi, yes, I use Alternate Launcher as it made everything (else) work simply and consistenly. I reset my mapping back to standard as I fly the F16 more. It would be good to have a way to switch easily with AL the way non-AL pilots do. I was wondering if OVGME or JSGME would help. I have both programs as they look useful, but I have never used either program. I will come back to HOTAS mapping after using the 18 a little more consistently.
In terms of training:
Getting to the preset channels, I’d expect something like this to be rewritten to reference the f18 hotspots/buttons: "To select preset #2, either hit “2” in the scratchpad then ENTR or use ICP “up arrow” then ENTR. " It wouldn’t need to be long, just the basics.
I’m not sure what I was doing with the UFC, but it wasn’t working the way I’d expect. I kept finding myself in the ALOW menu and on the LIST page. The top “vertical mode” button seemed to increment things by one (Rocker up?), one of the middle “vertical mode” buttons seemed to bring up list (LIST mode?). DSC didn’t seem to work consistently for right or left, or I was not pressing a hotspot accurately without a visual reference, or I only realised afterwards which was the DSC, as the 3d cockpit manual is in terms of keyboard callbacks, which I typically don’t see at all (perhaps because of my reliance on AL). ENTR didn’t seem to lock in an entry. I was in a rush (my first launch was exploratory, just looking around and I didn’t have pedals attached so I…decided to investigate gravity modelling off the side of the carrier. My second attempt going through Carrier Ops training more accurately I couldn’t switch frequencies) and got disoriented. I will have to try again paying more attention to hotspots.
While the Naval Ops manual has the keyboard commands listed, just a ready reference card of them would be helpful if you are putting together a quick guide. Once you’ve done it a few times, you provably just remember them or bind them, eg
Extend/retract wings - AFWingFoldToggle - SHIFT w (on US qwerty keyboards)
Launch bar toggle - <callback>- SHIFT CTL ALT L
Take off trim - <callback>- SHIFT CTL ALT t
Release Catapult - TriggerAFTriggerCatapult - SHIFT K
etcThe Naval Ops manual is good, but training documents should integrate key commands and cockpit orientation. i dont think you need to replicate the depth of the full BMS Naval Ops manual, but maybe a shorter, concise almost-checklist-type reference. And then you can add the further material you are collecting here - perhaps more in depth if you want where it isn’t explained in Naval Ops.</callback></callback>
Good Day, Folks. Thanks for the replies and the pdf tips. I’m glad I asked before I got carried away! I use Adobe Acrobat for reading, but they want too much moolah to upgrade. So, I need some form of free pdf creator, and one I can edit-a lot-lol. I will be looking through your tips this afternoon.
Hi, Mypc. IMHO, it sounds like your comms issue is that you’re not in the right UFC “mode”. What I mean is that in our Bug’s Viperized avionics the number keys, the list button (unlabeled on diagram but third button from top)and the 2 comms buttons are “mode selectors” . So, for example, if you press 2 but aren’t in “Comm 1 mode” you will go to ALOW. So, what you do is DCS (aka Dobber/4 way DED selector/ADF button) left to the UFC “main page”. That is the one with the UHF comm channel in the top left of top (of 5) central windows, and the time in the third.
Then press Comm 1 (UFC lower left) to get in the right “mode” and you’ll see the 2 cursor boxes in the third window. Now press 2 then enter on the UFC, and viola, you’re in UHF 2.
Jayb(post 33) raises a good point. Do you use your pc keyboard, or the mouse and hotspots, on the UFC/ICP and cockpit buttons and levers? I am almost 100% the latter( so glad I’m a left-handed Mouser), but I don’t want to confuse someone who uses the pc keyboard. So, I’m thinking about what you wrote about callbacks like shift W for Wing Fold . A problem for me in presenting that data is that my BMS-Full keyfile has been significantly modded. You see, I have this old Saitek reflex where I don’t like combo key commands like Shift W. Plus, as a “Hotspoter” I unfold the wings by pressing the lever in 'pit. Or , for something on HOTAS, like you I use AL. So, I’m not focused on the “shift w’s”.I need to think of the right way to communicate it. More Homework . Just off the top of my head, how does this sound…
Checklist-UFC-On( U(for UFC)-on/off)
-IDM -On(U-DL)
I mention those 2 as they are not labeled on 3D cockpit F-18.
So, thanks for your tips on how to present things. I have no intent or desire to rewrite the work of our Dev’s with the Manuals. They were done very well, as far as I’m concerned. Like I’ve written , I’m just adding a bit of Bug Flavor. -
Update, and thanks to jayb for the Libre tip. Now, as I have never done it, how do you attach a pdf here?
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…if DCS has a DED they they are ded-wrong. There is no DED in a Hornet.
True, I was referring to the Data Command Switch in the F-16. The one with left=RTN and right=SEQ. Those callbacks have been carried over to the BMS F-18 (SimICP group). Reason for why I mentioned that, is that it also “works” in the BMS F-18. In particular the up/down movement will walk you through the data fields on the current up-front digital display of the BMS Hornet. Left, or RTN, will bring you back to top menu level
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True, I was referring to the Data Command Switch in the F-16. The one with left=RTN and right=SEQ. Those callbacks have been carried over to the BMS F-18 (SimICP group). Reason for why I mentioned that, is that it also “works” in the BMS F-18. In particular the up/down movement will walk you through the data fields on the current up-front digital display of the BMS Hornet. Left, or RTN, will bring you back to top menu level
Good Day, All. This illustrates something I’m trying to avoid myself, confusing someone with my terminology. When I describing that “thing with the keypad up front” , should I call it UFC or ICP? That’s just one example. Or , fact that DCS can mean something very different then Data Command Switch!
Meanwhile, I’ve been RTFM’ing, and am still trying to figure out how to attach a pdf here. -
True, I was referring to the Data Command Switch in the F-16. The one with left=RTN and right=SEQ. Those callbacks have been carried over to the BMS F-18 (SimICP group). Reason for why I mentioned that, is that it also “works” in the BMS F-18. In particular the up/down movement will walk you through the data fields on the current up-front digital display of the BMS Hornet. Left, or RTN, will bring you back to top menu level
…interesting. Still ded-wrong…but interesting.
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drtbkj, what you should do is reply, go Advanced, then press the paperclip symbol. “add files” will then give you the option to browse your PC for the pdf file you want to attach. Select it and you should choose Done in the lower right corner. Let me see if I can attach a screenshot of what you should do:
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drtbkj, what you should do is reply, go Advanced, then press the paperclip symbol. “add files” will then give you the option to browse your PC for the pdf file you want to attach. Select it and you should choose Done in the lower right corner. Let me see if I can attach a screenshot of what you should do:
Jayb, you da’ man. Checklist should be landing here this weekend.
Meanwhile , here’s another HOTAS option. Using Voice Attack, I moved the CMS functions to the throttle POV. Down is CMS forward, up is CMS back (programmed as before with one chaff/flare each), left is Slap, and right is jammer toggle (J). This option would also be good for some who wants the regular Viper CMS 4 way function. The reason I did it as described was I wanted the Slap button there.
Boat switch forward is Cursor Enable(with Cursor Zero as shifted), and Uncage is aft. -
Good Day, All.
Here is the pdf with a fairly polished Main Checklist for the Hornet. It has been tested in Hornet and Viper. Your opinions and advice are most welcome.
UPDATE:12/15/20- Change item 34, and add 35
34) Request QNH, set altimeter, confirm radar altimeter to STBY35a) Mission data – enter.
Select WPT 1 and Auto STRP (List 4,DCS switch right for AUTO)
Weapons/sensors - AS REQUIRED (TGP modes for AA and AG Master modes)
STORES page - VERIFY PROPER STORE INVENTORY AND STATION STATUS -
Hi, I managed to get airborne, but have not yet managed to land (0/2 attempts), although that will be the next step. RTN and SEQ were what I was missing, I think I realised there was 4 way switch only after the last flights.
Carrier Ops are really interesting for a change of scene!
Taxiing on the carrier was interesting in the small spaces. Does the F-18 steer more than the F-16, or am I just used to higher speeds on a runway and more gentle turns. My pedal setup has never been ideal, but that is now magnified on the small deck.
I am happy to have the F-16’s control scheme (like NWS) while I learn the basics, but eventually I would want a distinct control mapping, so I’m watching what you all develop.
Hands off HOTAS when launching and break to the right.
I will be ramp starting the F-18 for the time being, but will check that part of the checklist - it looks good!
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Hi, I managed to get airborne, but have not yet managed to land (0/2 attempts), although that will be the next step. RTN and SEQ were what I was missing, I think I realised there was 4 way switch only after the last flights.
Carrier Ops are really interesting for a change of scene!
Taxiing on the carrier was interesting in the small spaces. Does the F-18 steer more than the F-16, or am I just used to higher speeds on a runway and more gentle turns. My pedal setup has never been ideal, but that is now magnified on the small deck.
I am happy to have the F-16’s control scheme (like NWS) while I learn the basics, but eventually I would want a distinct control mapping, so I’m watching what you all develop.
Hands off HOTAS when launching and break to the right.
I will be ramp starting the F-18 for the time being, but will check that part of the checklist - it looks good!
Hi, Mypc, I’m glad you’re enjoying BMS’s Bug.
Yes, landing on the Boat IS different, and the main reason I like the Hornet. I believe it was Brother Mower who told us “flare to land, squat to pee”. You can actually Google that reference.
I don’t know if our Bug is modeled with more sensitive NWS or not. The RL Bug has a low and High settings. To me , if you give it a little throttle and full rudder it feels like NWS HI. I also think you’re right in that in the Viper you’re not making these tight turns. My BMS install usually spawns me on Elevator 1(starboard forward) , so I taxi to my 10 o’clock to the Foul Line( border of the landing area) and do a starboard “Bat Turn”. That lines me up nicely with Cat 2.
IMHO, the really cool thing about BMS is you can enjoy the Hornet with completely Viper control scheme. I fly the Viper like the Hornet, but I fully realize that most of us probably do it the other way. To me the “weapon selector switch” where the CMS was has been a big “immersion thing”, as has been the “undesignate” instead of pinky/FOV. For that matter, the same is true with the checklist. I’m having a lot of fun doing the PB checklist based on NATOPS, but works for Hornet and Viper, but fully realize it may well be a bit much for those more Viper-oriented. In fact, I think it will be fun to take the BMS Viper checklist and just “Hornetize it” a bit.
I’m glad I had found the post launch procedure. It’s something I had wondered about. But, fortunately, based on the way the AI wingman launches, I think the Dev’s knew it.
Once you get to ramp starting the Hornet, keep in mind you can do so using the Viper Main Checklist. For example, the BMS Bug starts just fine without the APU. -
Here is a diagram of Flight Deck layout…
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Here’s a couple of Case 1 landing diagrams. One thing I like about “Case 1” vs. “NATOPS …” is the reminder of what a friend once told me- Turn to the 90 as soon as you see the back of the Boat.
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hi drtbkj, congratulations on your first release of the guide, well done! I have some experience with landing the F-18 on the carrier that I found hard to find in any of the manuals, so perhaps useful to your collection. Also, let me know if I am doing stuff wrong, this is just what has worked for me:
When in the downwind:
- Drop gear at below 250 knots, the F-18 will then trim itself to your AoA at that point. So I usually fly an alpha of 8.0 and then drop gear. The 8.0 is the middle of the Hornet bracket.
- With a dirty jet (gear+hook) and not too much speed in the downwind, 200-230, apply full flaps. Keep rpm at around 80-82. Note that the flaps will send you upwards, fight that with the stick
- Now start the turn onto final. One thing I have had issues with is how easy it stalls at that configuration. It is very hard to bank anymore than 30 degrees dirty like that, it drops like a rock in my experience. I found it strange that it would stall that easily making the final turn complicated.
- Also I come onto final a bit higher and a bit further back, around 1-2nm/1000ft from the carrier. So I start my turn past the abeam position. I can not see the deck properly at the landing AoA if I am only at 600 ft
- My glide slope is also more 4 degrees than 2.5, that does not seem to be an issue with navy gear
- Maybe obvious, but aim the fpm at the end of the flight deck while approaching, then let it float to a middle deck position, in front of all 4 wires
I would certainly not mind being corrected in some of this, I may have grown into some bad habits that may work for me but may also be a lot harder than it has to.
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hi drtbkj, congratulations on your first release of the guide, well done! I have some experience with landing the F-18 on the carrier that I found hard to find in any of the manuals, so perhaps useful to your collection. Also, let me know if I am doing stuff wrong, this is just what has worked for me:
When in the downwind:
- Drop gear at below 250 knots, the F-18 will then trim itself to your AoA at that point. So I usually fly an alpha of 8.0 and then drop gear. The 8.0 is the middle of the Hornet bracket.
- With a dirty jet (gear+hook) and not too much speed in the downwind, 200-230, apply full flaps. Keep rpm at around 80-82. Note that the flaps will send you upwards, fight that with the stick
- Now start the turn onto final. One thing I have had issues with is how easy it stalls at that configuration. It is very hard to bank anymore than 30 degrees dirty like that, it drops like a rock in my experience. I found it strange that it would stall that easily making the final turn complicated.
- Also I come onto final a bit higher and a bit further back, around 1-2nm/1000ft from the carrier. So I start my turn past the abeam position. I can not see the deck properly at the landing AoA if I am only at 600 ft
- My glide slope is also more 4 degrees than 2.5, that does not seem to be an issue with navy gear
- Maybe obvious, but aim the fpm at the end of the flight deck while approaching, then let it float to a middle deck position, in front of all 4 wires
I would certainly not mind being corrected in some of this, I may have grown into some bad habits that may work for me but may also be a lot harder than it has to.
Hi, Jayb. I concur with pretty much all of this. I’m not sure how good my habits are, but I’ve found…
2) If you apply full flaps as you’re turning into the downwind, the upward surge actually helps
3) True. Something I’m practicing is using the speedbrake and carrying more rpm. I’ve always noted that the Navy describes power settings and AOA and not air speed. I believe the RL SOP is to land with speed brake in on Final (I’d have to double check that). But, there’s time to retract it once settled on Final
4) Me, too. Sometimes I’ll line up the trailing edge of the wing with the Carrier’s stern, and then turn into the 90. It’s been tough from me to go from the Downwind and on to Final and be lined up right when I start in close. And, if you get sucked in tight, or more usually in my case, overshoot, the whole pass is botched.
6) Even the Navy describes it as aiming for the crotch. -
Good Day, All. While celebrating the inbound 4.35, I thought I’d finish up the checklist . Hopefully, .35 won’t make it obsolete