BMS 4.36 DEV SERIES - AGM 65L
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Someone help me out with this, I don’t understand the useage case for this weapon. To me it’s kinda like swapping an AIM-120 for a AIM-7. You are swapping a fire and forget weapon for a guide it all the way in weapon. To be explicit your also trading off the ability to hit 2 or more targets in one pass for what exactly?
I hate to be dense but the only two potential upsides is:
- potentially a higher hit rate, I’m around a 5/6 hit rate with the D/G variants. I’m never really surprised when one of the six goes off into the wild blue, but that is still like a 80% hit rate which is way higher than our AMRAAM hit rates.
- max standoff range, I think we have to be fair, in BMS popping one off at max range is a bit of a fluke, maybe some super-sayen can do it but for myself as a normal BMS guy it’s more like 8-10 mile release.
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@Buttons - MAV is primarily a CAS weapon. The MAV E/E2/L in particular.
Firstly, you can’t hit more than one target in one pass with any MAV. That is one of the things that is totally unrealistic that has been fixed. One pass/one shot…that’s how it works in the RW.
Second - a laser MAV is your single best choice for taking out tanks from any approach aspect. You can steer it manually or let it guide using auto lock/lase…and you can also use it pretty much like you would a gun for hitting a pinpoint on a building, etc.
You also get more options for employment in more scenarios - if you are working with a ground FAC, the FAC will shine the laser, and then it is “fire and forget”. This is also the only method that might accommodate a multiple launch, but I don’t know of anyone that operates that way.
But you can also self designate, or buddy lase. -
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@Stevie
multiple launches - you could if using different laser code for every missile/bomb to different target-example , Hellfire, old one, is also this SALH , but there are 4x AH64A , close to each other , wing… and every carries 8xAGM114 SALH version … every chopper has its own laser-code … or imagine mixup when they all fire from the same direction
Same goes to FAC, TargetPOD , one target only per laser (laser-code)…
The only question how far laser(s) with the SAME code can be apart to not “cross-effect” each other… and that is affected by range and direction obviously. … and vicinity of both targets …
-eg … firing platforms are using same code but they fire from opposite directions , 90-270 , … how far TARGETS must be from each other so the weapons don’t mix themself up …
- there are few outcome of this (AND/OR) , obviously , both weapons miss , both weapons hit first target , other target , … but IMHO, 99% would be both miss as sensors would go haywire
(mil) Lasers are pretty good ranged, airborne type, moisture, atmosphere etc, … ground (FAC) are not so , ~5nm tops., not because of laser, but platform , you need excellent STABILITY, PRECISION, OPTICS, to target anything at that range, sniper stuff, move a milrad - at 10000yards move 10yards or 100? … anyway , you got the point.
Cheers
Yes, I also don’t believe that you get DLZ from anything that you didnt SELF-PAINTED , only from reflection , so range information shouldn’t be there… else then a calculated from cordinates you were given … as it is
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@white_fang Please is it possible to ripple two AGM 65L at once? Thanks
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@Sniper-0 why not ?? … perfectly, …
Ah , you mean at the SAME TIME ? … That , I don’t know. , I don’t believe so. One after other , in a second(s) apart , no problem …
But what’s the real difference between same-time and 1sec apart … so.
–actually , now I recalled, you can with the D version , but every sensor on its missile have to have a target locked in advance… , then you can ripple-fire them … it is somewhat hollywood style … but what the heck
– I mean, so technically (in theory) you COULD’ve do it with E/L version on to the same spot, but what ripple means exactly ?? AUTO 1-2 , or IN-PAIRS ?
-I’ve never seen that, sorry. -
@white_fang - yes, but a single laser can only use a single code. So unless you are have done and are doing some pretty strong pre-coordination and using multiple lasers, you are not going to be able to do this - particularly in an on-call CAS scenario.
Yes - every chopper has it’s own code, and every chopper fires ONE Hellfire at a time…and that brings up another hazard - Hellfire is usually fired into a “basket” sort of like lofting an LGB. I know of one RL instance where a Hellfire was lofted during a training exercise and locked the wrong end of the laser - the muzzle end of an F/A-18D laser - vise the target, as it crested the toss. Fortunately the weapon didn’t fuse…but it took out a chunk of the Hornet’s left Stab passing by…it was night, so nobody even realized what had happened until the Hornet was taxiing in. Lucky…VERY lucky…
…and MAVs don’t have/use a DLZ as we’d think of one. None of them, in any case. So the model is ok there.
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@Stevie Exactly. Only one weapon was what I’ve seen. … Technically (in theory) it should be possible more then one , why not 4-5 … but they’ll end up in the same spot…
And of course, as your cute story, direction , you don’t want to be on the other side of a barrelThan Hellfire lobbing shot is LOAL-style (know from Longbow2) - it came from Lock-on-after-launch , gave you the range AND is fired blindly, Laser painting is done afterwards, last few seconds , … so no laser ranging or painting in-front as to not “disturb” the target tank , so no counter measures or minimum reaction time is given … if he deploys smoke/water/mist , laser is pretty much … ***ed
In this case F18D pod was first to “shine” - on the wrong end, BUT! , with the correct code
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@white_fang - all correct. In the case I site it was determined that the shot geometry was just plain wrong for an airborne buddy, aggravated by the fact that it was a night op.
…and because they’d all end up in the same hole on a single code/spot, I’ve oft suggested building laser guided Zuni rockets…talk about ripple on steroids!
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@Stevie Aye, those laser zuni’s have a name… can’t fetch it right now. Russian’s adopted them also, since they’re motherland of rockets…
Really, on steroids is the right word, just you don’t get area coverage anymore… but punch … more of a kick
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@white_fang - yup. I’ve also heard that laser MAV has become a big deal in urban warfare because of the ability to place it, and limit collateral damage. I love MAVs…and laser ones in particular.
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@Stevie Sure. That limited deployment ways is only “curse” for laser weapons. Easily jammed, essentially only with water
That;s why they turned to jdam - gps/rf . … almost all weapons today have secondary guidance. … even Harm have a millimeter wave radar.
But from precision standpoint , laser will always be top notch.
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@white_fang - there’s a laser JDAM now too…so you can not only drop it where you think it should go, you can steer it as well.
MAVG is over-modeled in BMS too. But what’s been done is pretty well done. Just get rid of those triple racks and pesky dome covers!
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@Stevie Correct, uuf, since 4.34/4.35?? … It’s GBU54 and I just love those babies , dropping them like flies. . Even effective little bastards.
It is the only LGB which laser-code can be changed in flight, via sms-ctrl page.Btw… they … THE BMS TEAM , (they know who they are) … unfortunately bugged AGM123 “Skipper” in 4.36 … I’ve tried,… even fixed’em… so.
Pretty decent standoff weapon , 1000lb bomb from cca10nm , laser guided. Marvelous for FAC/JTAC… as they do painting., fire and forget … with style
Agm123.dat need a sensor replacement … type 5-0 , so it behaves just like LMAV, and in database remove the flag gps-guided , “skipper” just misses everytime.
BUT!, for AI that may not be the case , so maybe they won’t know how to use it properly… still need to test try that .
*But!! , if they (AI) know how to use MAV-E/L … there is still hope -
@white_fang - I’m not reading much of anything I agree with that they’ve done to AIM-120 in 4.36…got me thinking about doing some hacking. For the first time. Or rolling back…
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@Stevie Look, what can you break ?? , I mean, just make a copy of a theater and that’s it.
You still have original for MP… , since its probably the best where to keep stuff exactly the same, as they are , for compatibility purposes.
But with local stuff… dissect it , butcher it … i don’t know what not, find a way to kill it if you can… only then you can find how it works, where it breaks. What’s the worst thing it can happen… break your installation … make copy , reinstall if needed.
What I want to say, you don’t have to be mad scientist at all … just look at Rick and Morty -
@white_fang - that’s what I was thinking…that mainly I’d break Multi-player, and mainly because what I’d hack would be armament or related. And I’d prefer those hacks to be universal, so…I’d have to give somethings up. Time will tell…once I have time on my hands!
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@Stevie Here you are. Quick-fix for AGM 123.
For anyone who is “in-love” enough to try it. - since that rocket bomb can be carried by F18 family but is not using new 4.36 SALH possibility.What is edited , is explosive type, range , laser guidance and loftable , few flags only.
For vehicle file it was more stuff, sensor , deployable wings time, guidance time (was set too low) … etc , you can compare files to have full picture. NOTHING too COMPLICATED especially if you did something similar before.- I still need to test wingman , can AI use it , IF you’re Human … then no problem … walk in the park.
- edit: AI wingman tested OK , … actually enjoyed it - now, only if he/she would learn buddy lasing one day …
When you open agm123 in database editor you will see on picture what has been changed in respect to original entry. - it was originally just for anti-ship use , which is… yes and no , … it was used more for anti-land then anti-ship, if ever.
You might want to BACKUP some stuff, not much, specifically:
- FALCON4_SWD.XML and FALCON4_WCD.XML for object directory (database)
- AGM-123.dat in sim/misdata , vehicle db
That’s it , no big deal. edit database, … copy “code” to favorite text editor and save it as AGM-123.dat , put that file in vehicle database.
Try it , I had pretty good results… it is 1000lb bomb … duh
HOPE guys, BSM TEAM … will make this weapon available officially in some subsequent update , not as this hackety hack., the real thing.
Cheers.
# Title: AGM-123 Skipper II # Author: BMS # Revision: Missile Data Manager ver:1.2.3.0 Date: 5/21/2016 7:17:16 PM #----------------------------------------------------- # Comments #----------------------------------------------------- #----------------------------------------------------- # INPUT DATA #----------------------------------------------------- # # Final Time (sec) 400.000000 # Pk (0.0-1.0) 0.800000 # Weight of missile (lbs) 1001.22 # Weight of propellant (lbs) 90.00 # Motor Impulse (lb-sec) 30000.00 # Reference Area (ft*ft) 0.348400 # Nozzle Exit Area (ft*ft) 0.200000 # Length (ft) 10.010000 # AOA max (deg) 12.0 # AOA min (deg) -12.0 # Beta max (deg) 12.0 # Beta min (deg) -12.0 # Velocity min (mach) 0.000000 # Gimbal Angle Limit (deg) 55.0 # Gimbl Ang Rate Lim (deg/sec) 12.0 # Field of View (deg) 10.0 # Guidance Delay (sec) 0.50 # Lofting Bias (Gs) 0.40 # Proportional nav gain 1.40 # Autopilot Bandwidth 0.00 # Time To Go Active (sec) -1.00 # Seeker Type 5 # Seeker Version 0 # Display 1 # Missile loft time 10.000000 # boostguidesec 0.500000 # terminalguiderange 24250.000000 # boostguideSensorPrecision 5.000000 # sustainguideSensorPrecision 4.300000 # terminalguideSensorPrecision 2.900000 # boostguideLead 2.000000 # sustainguideLead 1.000000 # terminalguideLead 1.000000 # boostguideGnav 1.000000 # sustainguideGnav 1.500000 # terminalguideGnav 1.800000 # boostguideBwap 0.090000 # sustainguideBwap 0.090000 # terminalguideBwap 0.090000 #----------------------------------------------------- # AERO DATA #----------------------------------------------------- # #----------------------------------------------------- # MACH BREAKPOINTS #----------------------------------------------------- # MACH 2 +0.000000 +4.000000 # #----------------------------------------------------- # ALPHA BREAKPOINTS #----------------------------------------------------- # ALPHA 21 +0.000000 +4.000000 +8.000000 +12.000000 +16.000000 +20.000000 +24.000000 +28.000000 +32.000000 +36.000000 +40.000000 +44.000000 +48.000000 +52.000000 +56.000000 +60.000000 +64.000000 +68.000000 +72.000000 +76.000000 +90.000000 # #----------------------------------------------------- # NORMAL FORCE COEFFICIENT CZ (SYMMETRIC ABOUT ALPHA = 0) #----------------------------------------------------- # # Normal Multiplier 0.950000 # # Mach: 0.0 +0.000000 -2.800000 -7.200000 -12.000000 -16.800000 -21.200000 -24.000000 -28.000000 -30.400000 -34.400000 -37.600000 -40.000000 -42.400000 -44.800000 -47.200000 -49.600000 -50.400000 -51.200000 -52.000000 -52.800000 -54.400000 # # Mach: 4.0 +0.000000 -3.500000 -9.000000 -15.000000 -21.000000 -26.500000 -30.000000 -35.000000 -38.000000 -43.000000 -47.000000 -50.000000 -53.000000 -56.000000 -59.000000 -62.000000 -63.000000 -64.000000 -65.000000 -66.000000 -68.000000 # # #----------------------------------------------------- # AXIAL FORCE COEFFICIENT CX (SYMMETRIC ABOUT ALPHA = 0) #----------------------------------------------------- # # Axial Multiplier 0.800000 # # Mach: 0.0 -1.120000 -1.040000 -0.960000 -0.880000 -0.800000 -0.720000 -0.640000 -0.580000 -0.540000 -0.490000 -0.450000 -0.420000 -0.380000 -0.320000 -0.280000 -0.220000 -0.160000 -0.120000 -0.080000 -0.040000 +0.000000 # # Mach: 4.0 -1.400000 -1.300000 -1.200000 -1.100000 -1.000000 -0.900000 -0.800000 -0.730000 -0.680000 -0.610000 -0.560000 -0.520000 -0.470000 -0.400000 -0.350000 -0.280000 -0.200000 -0.150000 -0.100000 -0.050000 +0.000000 # # #----------------------------------------------------- # Rocket SOLID ROCKET ENGINE DATA #----------------------------------------------------- # #----------------------------------------------------- # BURN TIME BREAKPOINTS #----------------------------------------------------- # BRNTIME 8 +0.000000 +0.025000 +3.100000 +3.200000 +3.500000 +4.000000 +4.800000 +5.000000 # #----------------------------------------------------- # ENGINE THRUST (LBS) #----------------------------------------------------- # +0.000000 +8000.000000 +8000.000000 +4000.000000 +1600.000000 +400.000000 +80.000000 +0.000000 # #----------------------------------------------------- # Range Data #----------------------------------------------------- # #Table Multiplier 1.00 # #----------------------------------------------------- # Number of Altitude Breakpoints #----------------------------------------------------- # 6 +0.000000 +10000.000000 +20000.000000 +30000.000000 +40000.000000 +50000.000000 # #----------------------------------------------------- # number of ownship vel breakpoints #----------------------------------------------------- # 2 +0.000000 +1181.490000 # #----------------------------------------------------- # number of aspect breakpoints #----------------------------------------------------- # 3 +0.000000 +1.570800 +3.141600 # # Alt = 0.0 # Vel = 0.0 +20000.000000 +20000.000000 +20000.000000 # # Alt = 0.0 # Vel = 1181.5 +30381.010000 +30381.010000 +30381.010000 # # # Alt = 10000.0 # Vel = 0.0 +36000.000000 +36000.000000 +36000.000000 # # Alt = 10000.0 # Vel = 1181.5 +46000.000000 +46000.000000 +46000.000000 # # # Alt = 20000.0 # Vel = 0.0 +57000.000000 +57000.000000 +57000.000000 # # Alt = 20000.0 # Vel = 1181.5 +64000.000000 +64000.000000 +64000.000000 # # # Alt = 30000.0 # Vel = 0.0 +63000.000000 +63000.000000 +63000.000000 # # Alt = 30000.0 # Vel = 1181.5 +72000.000000 +72000.000000 +72000.000000 # # # Alt = 40000.0 # Vel = 0.0 +65000.000000 +65000.000000 +65000.000000 # # Alt = 40000.0 # Vel = 1181.5 +73000.000000 +73000.000000 +73000.000000 # # # Alt = 50000.0 # Vel = 0.0 +70000.000000 +70000.000000 +70000.000000 # # Alt = 50000.0 # Vel = 1181.5 +80000.000000 +80000.000000 +80000.000000 # # #----------------------------------------------------- # Aux Data #----------------------------------------------------- # #----------------------------------------------------- # Type and Misc #----------------------------------------------------- maxToe 0 foxType 0 maxspeed 0 correctedWeigthCode 0 deployableWingsTime 5 errorfromparrent 0 pickleTimeDelay 200 AspectSelectorSize 50 #----------------------------------------------------- # Engine #----------------------------------------------------- engLocation 0.00 0.00 0.00 EngineSound 266 hasGasDynamicManeuvering 0 mistrail 45 contrail 49 misengGlowBSP 0 #----------------------------------------------------- # Rocket #----------------------------------------------------- rocketDispersionConeAngle 0 rocketSalvoSize -1 #----------------------------------------------------- # SecondStage #----------------------------------------------------- SecondStageTimer 0 SecondStageWeight 0 SecondStageOffset 0 #----------------------------------------------------- # Guidance #----------------------------------------------------- OpticalEyeOffset 5 hasInertialGuidance 0 InsDrift 0.0 AntiRadSensorPrecision 0.0 TerminalStageDist 7.0 dataLinkPodType 0 #----------------------------------------------------- # Range #----------------------------------------------------- MinEngagementRange 0 MinEngagementAlt -1 miniaerorange 0 #----------------------------------------------------- # Loft #----------------------------------------------------- loftTableFilename RMaxTableType 0 #----------------------------------------------------- # Gs #----------------------------------------------------- maxGTerminal 16 maxGNormal 16 RaeroTerminalGmax 8 RaeroTerminalGmin 2 #----------------------------------------------------- # Fuse #----------------------------------------------------- ProximityfuseChange 75 proximityfuserange 0 #----------------------------------------------------- # AIM-9 Sounds #----------------------------------------------------- sndAim9Growl 6 sndAim9GrowlLock 0 sndAim9Uncaged 7 sndAim9EnviroSky 186 sndAim9EnviroGround 187 #----------------------------------------------------- # Particle sys files #----------------------------------------------------- psGroundImpact _GP1000lb psMissileKill _GP1000lb psFeatureImpact _GP1000lb psBombImpact _GP1000lb psArmingDelay psExceedFOV psRocketBurst #----------------------------------------------------- # Counter #----------------------------------------------------- ChaffBurstChances 2 ChaffBurstResetInterval 2000 ClutterFactorHeight 4000 ChaffClutterFactor 1.1 BeamScanRatioForSearch 2 # #----------------------------------------------------- # Additionals that are not included in MDM. #-----------------------------------------------------
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I see there have been a great update for the durandals. the crater is bigger , CCRP works much better and for the durandals the flashing reticle doesn’t show anymore.
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Nice job from the devs, simple and practical maverick use, well done guys!!!
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just wondering why the “blow dome cover” for the D has been removed in 4.36. I needed to uncage in 4.34+ but now once in WP page I can see a video image already and without uncaging?