Solved FPS DROP IN THE NEW FALCON BMS 4.36
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@Kevstosmart @Kevstosmart mate, I think this is the one that I learned hardway in my case of Video Streaming Encoder, there are two part that matter,
1.CPU
2.GPUBoth of this part needed to be balance in term of speed ability. The CPU prepared all the matter for the GPU to render. Some people have very powerful GPU, but still experiences frame drop / in BMS can visually seen as FPS drop / stutter. It is caused by, not enough material prepared by the CPU to feed into the GPU to be rendered. The cause of the CPU, is very much complex nowadays, but commonly, the CPU is underpower to prepare the graphic material that we already set. That’s the one main cause of problem. At first time I play BMS, I do experiences FPS drop at the ground, and going smooth after airborne. And this is all the step I do to made the ground / at the ground FPS is capped and steady at 144FPS.
First, I do a denial one, because mostly, my CPU is well okay doing the intense calculation at very heavy gaming at the ULTRA graphic setting, so I think, this is all about the CPU setup at the regedit part Win32PrioritySeparation. Why this one? Because I do also intense calculation in the background using the tracker. It is CPU burden also, so that I have to made it perfectly suited to setup the CPU scheduling so that the BMS FPS steady, both at the ground, and airborne. I do intense math check and come up with this 9 possible setup that I’ll try at those time one by one to see the improvement.
This setup inputed at regedit HKLM/System/CurrentControlSet/Control/PriorityControl/Win32PrioritySeparation
By default it is set to 2, but next I’ll give you all my list to test at those time
Please note, input with hex radio button selected
2A hex
29 hex
28 hexthis three is short fixed around 60ms fixed Quanta at the CPU. 28 is no foreground application boost, 29 medium foreground boost, and 2A High Foreground Boost
next is the famous number strongly sugested by many people
26 hex
25 hex
24 hexthis three is short variable quanta with 24 is no foreground boost and 26 is high foreground boost and 25 is medium
next I usually use these three setup when doing a very heavy CPU calculation while recording and mixing around 700 tracks with all plugins on, and have to get the latency not more than 4ms
1A hex
19 hex
18 hexthis three is long fixed quanta, mean that it gives the lonnger time for CPU to schedulling the thread, with 1A is high foreground boost (it is the best when in term of my recording latency), then 19 is medium, and 18 no foreground at all.
And I come up with this result, 2A in my machine work best, the SIM FPS stabilized, not jink up and down, but, I still see some room of improvement here.
Side note, mostly for BMS, you do not need High END GPU, except you use the very heavy AntiAlias, anisotropic, at the GPU side, not the software side. Term GPU side is, you turn off all the antialias and anisotropic filter in BMS, and use spesific setup at “CARD DRIVER” for BMS program only, that’s when your expensive GPU will kick in. In term of stream, it called, hardware encoder.
So right now we know the three FPS counter
SIM
ren (mean rendered)
FPSwhile SIM is the actual FPS that your CPU prepare, it goes into the rendered, for your GPU to perfectly sync and polished to be seen at the FPS (this is the output one).
Side note again, do not expect the GPU to rendered more than the SIM (CPU) feed into the GPU. This is the main problem. No matter how powerful the GPU is, all is CPU dependant. Also note about any trackIR, it is heavy CPU also.
Right now, we understand that, CPU is essential here, while GPU is just, well, so so. At this moment when I see this, I come into conclussion for my machine at those time, if I need 140FPS SIM at the ground, mean that I have to lighten the load of my CPU, or using 4x time faster CPU roughly. From 30 - 60 FPS SIM at the ground, into 140FPS SIM at the ground. Two things I can consider, buy, or lighten the load.
I pick lighten the load, and started to goes into config, eliminate all the graph until minimum visual I can accept, those also lower the resolution. I do using no antialias at the CPU side by turning it at the minimum into the BMS config, and turn it max at my GPU driver page.
After I did this, well, ground FPS SIM CPU is roughly near the same while airborne, and my GPU sync it with monitor perfectly.
Sometimes, gamer tends to kick the graph into something that their CPU can’t chew, assumed that they have powerful GPU. If the game have the hardware option to make all the graph related fully at the GPU power, it is good to have high end GPU, but, in case of BMS, it is CPU dependant.
Let’s conclude this, 2A for CPU, and lighten the load. Lighten the load start with shader, Resolution, and detail, while at the same time all filtering like antialias and anisotropic have to be off and turn it on at the GPU driver page. You might find yours, but I hope it’ll help you.
-GP-
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@GP1508 wow, very very very detailed response and I learned a lot from it and things I did not know tyvm
My question to you is, “is my cpu the problem ?”
It’s a 10850k @ 5.1 all coreP.s such a detailed reply I read it 3 times before I understood correctly
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@Kevstosmart to be honest, I do not know, just try the step above, if there is improvement, yes, your CPU is underpowered compared to the graphic setting you asked for it to prepare
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@GP1508 said in FPS DROP IN THE NEW FALCON BMS 4.36:
@Kevstosmart to be honest, I do not know, just try the step above, if there is improvement, yes, your CPU is underpowered compared to the graphic setting you asked for it to prepare
Will do! When I get home I’m going to do exactly as you did and go from there.
Ty have a wonderful day (it’s 6am here)
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@Kevstosmart aight then, I hope it solved yours.
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@GP1508 said in FPS DROP IN THE NEW FALCON BMS 4.36:
@Kevstosmart @Kevstosmart mate, I think this is the one that I learned hardway in my case of Video Streaming Encoder, there are two part that matter,
1.CPU
2.GPUBoth of this part needed to be balance in term of speed ability. The CPU prepared all the matter for the GPU to render. Some people have very powerful GPU, but still experiences frame drop / in BMS can visually seen as FPS drop / stutter. It is caused by, not enough material prepared by the CPU to feed into the GPU to be rendered. The cause of the CPU, is very much complex nowadays, but commonly, the CPU is underpower to prepare the graphic material that we already set. That’s the one main cause of problem. At first time I play BMS, I do experiences FPS drop at the ground, and going smooth after airborne. And this is all the step I do to made the ground / at the ground FPS is capped and steady at 144FPS.
First, I do a denial one, because mostly, my CPU is well okay doing the intense calculation at very heavy gaming at the ULTRA graphic setting, so I think, this is all about the CPU setup at the regedit part Win32PrioritySeparation. Why this one? Because I do also intense calculation in the background using the tracker. It is CPU burden also, so that I have to made it perfectly suited to setup the CPU scheduling so that the BMS FPS steady, both at the ground, and airborne. I do intense math check and come up with this 9 possible setup that I’ll try at those time one by one to see the improvement.
This setup inputed at regedit HKLM/System/CurrentControlSet/Control/PriorityControl/Win32PrioritySeparation
By default it is set to 2, but next I’ll give you all my list to test at those time
Please note, input with hex radio button selected
2A hex
29 hex
28 hexthis three is short fixed around 60ms fixed Quanta at the CPU. 28 is no foreground application boost, 29 medium foreground boost, and 2A High Foreground Boost
next is the famous number strongly sugested by many people
26 hex
25 hex
24 hexthis three is short variable quanta with 24 is no foreground boost and 26 is high foreground boost and 25 is medium
next I usually use these three setup when doing a very heavy CPU calculation while recording and mixing around 700 tracks with all plugins on, and have to get the latency not more than 4ms
1A hex
19 hex
18 hexthis three is long fixed quanta, mean that it gives the lonnger time for CPU to schedulling the thread, with 1A is high foreground boost (it is the best when in term of my recording latency), then 19 is medium, and 18 no foreground at all.
And I come up with this result, 2A in my machine work best, the SIM FPS stabilized, not jink up and down, but, I still see some room of improvement here.
Side note, mostly for BMS, you do not need High END GPU, except you use the very heavy AntiAlias, anisotropic, at the GPU side, not the software side. Term GPU side is, you turn off all the antialias and anisotropic filter in BMS, and use spesific setup at “CARD DRIVER” for BMS program only, that’s when your expensive GPU will kick in. In term of stream, it called, hardware encoder.
So right now we know the three FPS counter
SIM
ren (mean rendered)
FPSwhile SIM is the actual FPS that your CPU prepare, it goes into the rendered, for your GPU to perfectly sync and polished to be seen at the FPS (this is the output one).
Side note again, do not expect the GPU to rendered more than the SIM (CPU) feed into the GPU. This is the main problem. No matter how powerful the GPU is, all is CPU dependant. Also note about any trackIR, it is heavy CPU also.
Right now, we understand that, CPU is essential here, while GPU is just, well, so so. At this moment when I see this, I come into conclussion for my machine at those time, if I need 140FPS SIM at the ground, mean that I have to lighten the load of my CPU, or using 4x time faster CPU roughly. From 30 - 60 FPS SIM at the ground, into 140FPS SIM at the ground. Two things I can consider, buy, or lighten the load.
I pick lighten the load, and started to goes into config, eliminate all the graph until minimum visual I can accept, those also lower the resolution. I do using no antialias at the CPU side by turning it at the minimum into the BMS config, and turn it max at my GPU driver page.
After I did this, well, ground FPS SIM CPU is roughly near the same while airborne, and my GPU sync it with monitor perfectly.
Sometimes, gamer tends to kick the graph into something that their CPU can’t chew, assumed that they have powerful GPU. If the game have the hardware option to make all the graph related fully at the GPU power, it is good to have high end GPU, but, in case of BMS, it is CPU dependant.
Let’s conclude this, 2A for CPU, and lighten the load. Lighten the load start with shader, Resolution, and detail, while at the same time all filtering like antialias and anisotropic have to be off and turn it on at the GPU driver page. You might find yours, but I hope it’ll help you.
-GP-
No offense, but you have some mistakes in your assumptions:
- If you think a modern CPU as 10850K cannot feed the GPU fast enough, then you are wrong. The problem about the GPU not 100% utilized is because inefficiency of the 3D models and terrain systems.
In short details: GPU like batches, it doesn’t like to get feed only a few tris at a time, so if you want it 100% utilized, you’ll need to fed it right. BMS currently don’t do that good enough.
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Do you really think BMS internal multi-sampling setting is doing anti-aliasing on the CPU?? Come on man this is 2022… The multi-sampling setting is fed into the Back-Buffers and is handled by the GPU in real time.
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A more general advice - Chasing performance can get you to many placebo effects. I suggest to listen to people who know how things are working in BMS and/or have knowledge of game engines.
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@I-Hawk maybe, Idk, but at least, those work on mine… He need solution, so I thing I might share some to help him, if it works, good, if not, well, maybe the other can help. That’s it, not to made right or wrong assumption, but giving hands for solution. That’s why I told him, to be honest I do not know, but if he try, and if it is fixed the problem, that’s what I intend to do. Aight?
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@I-Hawk said in FPS DROP IN THE NEW FALCON BMS 4.36:
With new terrain engine your GPU will be 100% utilized, don’t worry about that.
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@I-Hawk
On my old i5 6600k/GTX 1660Ti, 16GB Ram TE Benchmark runs nicely at 60fps capped with Cmd around 7000. Most demanding TE is 21 Osan Daegu - there the Cmd count goes to 14000 and my fps is around 38-42 pretty stuttery. If I turn off Shadow Mapping, Cmd count goes down to 6000-7000 and fps is again 60. My bottleneck is clearly shadow mapping as it doubles the number of Cmd (drawcals?) - I would be really grateful if it would be possible to set the Shadow Mapping radius somehow in menu/config (ie no shadows/cockpit/small radius/normal/big/+shadows on smoke -
@I-Hawk this makes more sense, as I tried what he stated the difference are negligible or the same.
Thank you for clearing things up
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@Mike_Bravo said in FPS DROP IN THE NEW FALCON BMS 4.36:
@I-Hawk
On my old i5 6600k/GTX 1660Ti, 16GB Ram TE Benchmark runs nicely at 60fps capped with Cmd around 7000. Most demanding TE is 21 Osan Daegu - there the Cmd count goes to 14000 and my fps is around 38-42 pretty stuttery. If I turn off Shadow Mapping, Cmd count goes down to 6000-7000 and fps is again 60. My bottleneck is clearly shadow mapping as it doubles the number of Cmd (drawcals?) - I would be really grateful if it would be possible to set the Shadow Mapping radius somehow in menu/config (ie no shadows/cockpit/small radius/normal/big/+shadows on smokeSame observation here on my end. I’m running a i7 4790k and a GTX1070 with about the same FPS running at 3440x1440.
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Guys first of all let me apologize for my apparently wrong numbers previously… yesterday I was at work and via AnyDesk connected to my PC, and I don’t know why but my FPS were MUCH lower (My GPU is mining Eth all the time when idle, and I do change my MSI afterburner settings on it for that, it may be not so great returning to normal when I tell it to ).
Right now in the Benchmark TE my numbers are:
4.36: ~67 on the runway and ~100 after 1 minute of taking off
Dev version with new terrain and a lot more stuff: ~54 on runway and ~73 after 1 minute of taking off (Yea Dev version is heavier overall, 4.36 even though less efficient still has a LOT less triangles, Dev version FPS in the air isHere is a screenshot capture from my 4.36:
So yes ~40 sounds too low for 10850K and 3070. I’d first check:
Nvidia driver
Settings (e.g better set antialiasing from BMS Multi-sampling than Nvidia driver
Make sure your windows is updated (I’ve seen shit in the past from that) and restart before the test if you haven’t done so for a long time@GP1508 - No hard feelings and that’s why I posted “No offense” at the beginning of my post. I just wanted to correct what I saw inaccurate assumptions in your post. In last years I’ve gained some experience in all the CPU/GPU relations so I have some idea (usually better than the average user/gamer) of what’s happening under the hood.
Cheers!
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@I-Hawk : Aight mate, Ehehehe… I still learn to fly this beauty. Used to play different things, and now I got new toy to play around with. This kind of simulation trully a brand new for me. I used to play MOBA, but now, finally I can relax and fly aside 12 hours daily at MOBA.
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@Kevstosmart You really need to check your hardware and any software related to it and also tell us your resolution. Unless I missed it somewhere, you never mention it.
The reason I say this is because I get 80-90+ FPS on the ground on the benchmark TE. Lowest I saw was 65-70 when I did a U-turn after I got onto the runway and started passing next to every aircraft waiting to take off. After takeoff FPS gets to 110-130 as soon as I reach 2k ft or a bit higher, which is what I-Hawk said.
My specs are Ryzen 5 5600X, RX 6600XT, GSkill Ripjaws V 2x8GB @3200MHz with 2 1080p monitors. Everything apart from the HDR settings are on the highest and multisampling at 4. Using JanHas models and shadow maps.
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@Adolfussy
What Theater/campaign are you flying? Is this perhaps a self-made mission? The reason I’m asking is something we noticed while testing in the soon to be released Nevada campaign . We noticed a severe drop-off in one particular campaign. This camp. had a LOT of ground units, and on the carrier deck FPS was in the low teens. However, when we “thinned out” the ground units, FPS went to normal.
We also saw what I-Hawk and others have told you, FPS values in the air are very different then those on the ground. -
@unkindled said in FPS DROP IN THE NEW FALCON BMS 4.36:
@Kevstosmart You really need to check your hardware and any software related to it and also tell us your resolution. Unless I missed it somewhere, you never mention it.
The reason I say this is because I get 80-90+ FPS on the ground on the benchmark TE. Lowest I saw was 65-70 when I did a U-turn after I got onto the runway and started passing next to every aircraft waiting to take off. After takeoff FPS gets to 110-130 as soon as I reach 2k ft or a bit higher, which is what I-Hawk said.
My specs are Ryzen 5 5600X, RX 6600XT, GSkill Ripjaws V 2x8GB @3200MHz with 2 1080p monitors. Everything apart from the HDR settings are on the highest and multisampling at 4. Using JanHas models and shadow maps.
Ill have to see what’s going on, and I’m running 3440x1440p and exporting to 3 tablets 2 as mfds and 1 as a icp
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@Kevstosmart Your resolution certainly makes it harder to get high frames but the 3070 is a GPU for 1440p so it shouldn’t be struggling, especially in BMS which isn’t that much graphically intensive yet. Do you have any other games where you feel like your hardware is underperforming? Preferably mostly recent or well optimized ones.
Also keep in mind that as others have said the benchmark TE is a worst case scenario and we rarely see that many objects from up close.
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@unkindled everything else runs fine, in the flight department dcs struggles in the same department and msfs runs perfect on ultra.
Arma reforger runs amazing despite the MP d.c
No man’s sky runs fine no issues
Squad runs amazing
Insurgency sandstorm runs amazingTyvm for your help but I’m not going to loose hair over this. I know it’s not my hardware or “software” I can do this on a fresh install with all the normal things that are considered bad and turned off like game mode, hags.
Same rabbit hole I fell into chasing it with dcs, older games with older game engines with a lot new shinning things being added. I’m sure if I turned my 1440 down to 1080p and stopped RTT to gain a handful of fps I’ll be running around the same fps you are.That being said I am not complaining, one thing bms does for me is even if things get low on the fps side I can’t notice there is ZERO I mean absolutely zero stutters EVER.
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@Kevstosmart That’s a relief tbh. Also I wholeheartedly agree about BMS performance. With my previous setup I could go as high as 70 but as low as 25-30 in some really hectic situations without ever seeing stutters.
You’re also right about not obsessing over it. Since everything else is ok, no point in chasing it.
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@Kevstosmart Now I am thinking if you added the game to the AV exceptions… wondering if this is acting up with it…