Requesting Input on JSOW
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Good Day, All. I have been testing JSOW-A in 4.36, figuring out it’s new performance characteristics, and would appreciate the Group’s input on the following:
- my personal settings for 4.35 were 3.33 EGEA and 1111 BA, against SAM sites. Comments? What settings are you using in 4.36?
- I was testing SLAM in a TE, and carried some JSOW , as well. I’m testing using SLAM against the radars, then following up with JSOW. Anyway, I got hits with both but saw something unexpected. When I went in for BDA I saw a large blast crater for the SLAM ( as expected) , but an equally large one for the JSOW. That seemed strange to me. The JSOW targets were 3 SA-10 launchers in a row in revetments. The crater was centered on one of the launcher’s location. It doesn’t seem a SA-10 cooking off would make such a crater, would it?
- I was RTFM’ing the 'Net, and saw JSOW range values of 12 nm (low) or 63 miles (high) . Has anyone tested this, and what constitutes high altitude?
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@drtbkj Hmmm, from what is worth … checked damage and radius in db … for slam/er - jsow-a/c - seems ok by numbers
- jsow-a wouldn’t exactly leave a crater , IRL , it is a dispenser , probably just BMS graphics limitation??? - todo - see if cluster bombs leave a crater , cbuXX/mk20 (of course not on live sa10 )
- high alt is 15-20k and above - that’s 5km and above, pretty much alt for ranged gliding , of course 30k should give much better range
- max range for jsow’s is maybe some reduced in BMS ~25km (see if you can get lar/envelope at 30k alt, range wise)
that would be consistent with 12nm (low)… could be better - but for gameplay purposes… enough? … so sa-10 would give you trouble entering envelope, hehe
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@white_fang said in Requesting Input on JSOW:
@drtbkj Hmmm, from what is worth … checked damage and radius in db … for slam/er - jsow-a/c - seems ok by numbers
- jsow-a wouldn’t exactly leave a crater , IRL , it is a dispenser , probably just BMS graphics limitation??? - todo - see if cluster bombs leave a crater , cbuXX/mk20 (of course not on live sa10 )
- high alt is 15-20k and above - that’s 5km and above, pretty much alt for ranged gliding , of course 30k should give much better range
- max range for jsow’s is maybe some reduced in BMS ~25km (see if you can get lar/envelope at 30k alt, range wise)
that would be consistent with 12nm (low)… could be better - but for gameplay purposes… enough? … so sa-10 would give you trouble entering envelope, hehe
Hi, and thx for the second opinion. I concur that JSOW range seems “detuned”. That’s why I’m wondering “how high is high” At 25k I am not seeing that kind of range. The same seems to be true of SLAM-ER at any altitude. It almost seems SLAM and -ER have the same range, or at least similar.
I’ll test with regular CBU about the “crater effect”. I’m not too concerned with how it looks, mainly in how best to utilize JSOW. BTW, what are you using for EFEA and BA?
I’ll be doing more testing today. I’m having fun working on SLAM tactics, as well. I launch a SLAM, go cold to get separation, then follow it in at low level, finishing the site with JSOW/CBU. You have to be careful to maintain the pod connection with the missile. Also, I’m trying different loadouts with the AI Wingie. -
I do not have that many missions in 4.36, but from what I am seeing the JSOW seems to have the same behavior as in 4.35.
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@Cantoo That’s what I’m trying to figure out. Some have reported it’s less “boom” then before.
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If you still have 4.35 installed, do the IAM training TE in each.
Target the center of the column(s) … it’s night-and-day difference in results.
In 4.35 one could get about 20 ag kills with 4x JSOW… in 4.36, I can only get a few … 1-2 kills per weapon.
If people who know, tell me 4.36 is more realistic, then ok that’s great … but if there’s a bug in how EGEA / burst-altitude is calculated, then that’s something that s/b fixed.
I’m not really sure if “EGEA” corresponds to “burst altitude” or if it means something else. And I’m still not totally sure if it’s meant to be barometric or AGL. (in BMS or IRL)
I’ve tried varying EGEA in 4.36 and I don’t see much change in behavior, or results.
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@airtex2019 jsow was behaving like a nuke in previous version. The 20-30 kills per jsow is totally unrealistic. Now it uses same parameter as cbu87, which uses the same warhead.
EGEA is the altitude above target at which the jsow will burst. Same as CBU BA IIRC.
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Btw I have seen JSOW taking 3-5 kills in campaign several times. This is what is expected from it.
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@Seifer sounds good, I can certainly see it was probably unrealistically OP before, and needed to be nerfed … as the kids say
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Notice how it destroys light vehicles and damage structures. In previous version, it would have wiped out the entire battalion, destroyed the airbase and its buildings and if the F16 was not fast enough, it would get killed as well. And the pilot would still have 2 or 3 JSOW to kill any SU35 that showed up on the way back.
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@Seifer said in Requesting Input on JSOW:
@airtex2019 jsow was behaving like a nuke in previous version. The 20-30 kills per jsow is totally unrealistic. Now it uses same parameter as cbu87, which uses the same warhead.
EGEA is the altitude above target at which the jsow will burst. Same as CBU BA IIRC.
From the 4.36 Dash -34
" EGEA defines a minimum altitude relative to the target altitude
that the weapon will fly at endgame entry range. This range from the target is where the JSOW will begin its terminal maneuvers.
ROB is defined as the minimum range from the target where the weapon’s velocity vector will be in line with the planned attack
azimuth"
So, Seifer, you’re right. The above used to be a little confusing until I realized weapon page for CBU has a BA value, while JSOW just has EGEA and ROB. What I used to do was shorten ROB to “drop it” over terrain and raise the EGEA for more dispersion. Now I’m wondering in my old "default " EGEA of 1111 ft is too high, even for soft targets like SAMs and radars
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And, Airtex, it’s AGL -
@Seifer Too funny your description of the previous capacity of JSOWs !
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I had written my own recent experience with JSOW in this topic:
https://forum.falcon-bms.com/topic/22658/jsow-agm154a-lethality-radius?_=1654760937314 -
@drtbkj yeah, for Slam/ER … since so long range weapon , I suspect there’s “player bubble” effect … I’m not sure about it, just seems legit.
So range has been reduced to fit in. …
Personally, I find it more then enough , … almost you don’t have to leave carrier airspace , and shoot from safe distance.Now , I’ll do test of my own, but strange you got kills to sa-10 site… not firing back… slam/er should be detected at some point… yes it is kinda terrain-following (as much as you do it in BMS) … but SAM should be able to shoot it down.
Even slam-er has that stealthy look (vs SLAM which don’t, looks like original Harpoon) ,… that RCS is for sure greater then harm and is whole lot slower.Try with more complex sam site (IADS), sa10+sa17+sa15+sa19, …
IRL (today) sa-10 would never operate alone. - without protectionAnd that’s also “idea” for sam units in db … to add some sa15/17/19 to a sa10 unit. - mix’n’match