BMS Crashes after time spent in flight - Memory Usage warning appears moments before crash - Memory Leak issue?
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run TaskMgr during a long flight
Will do, thanks for the tips.
@I-Hawk said in BMS Crashes after time spent in flight - Memory Usage warning appears moments before crash - Memory Leak issue?:
2GB may be the “announced VRAM”
It shows Display Memory (VRAM): 2010 MB and Shared Memory: 4036 MB.
Now 2010MB VRAM is simply not enough for BMS anymore?@white_fang said in BMS Crashes after time spent in flight - Memory Usage warning appears moments before crash - Memory Leak issue?:
I’ve never seen pagefile at 100% and that 17GB’s
Any idea on what that means and why it’s using so much?
I’ll tune down everything I can graphics-wise and see if it helps. I’ve already closed every app running in the fore and background (even turning off the antivirus completely) besides anything essential for windows, but it didn’t seem to make any difference.@Arty said in BMS Crashes after time spent in flight - Memory Usage warning appears moments before crash - Memory Leak issue?:
this laptop - system doesn’t “quallify” for BMS running
Sad. Up until the last version of 4.35 I could comfortably run OBS and record at 1080p 60fps while flying 4 hour long flights without ever having a memory issue in this same system. Now suddenly it’s unplayable even with the minimal and only necessary apps running in the background, right after a complete restart?
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@ArcherAC3 said in BMS Crashes after time spent in flight - Memory Usage warning appears moments before crash - Memory Leak issue?:
Now 2010MB VRAM is simply not enough for BMS anymore?
I must defer to BMS team to say what the minimum system requirements are. Both 4.35 and 4.36 seem to utilize about 3 Gb of video-ram. Add some padding for Windows and other apps … I’d say 4 Gb would probably be the “recommended” system requirement for dedicated video-ram.
With the added “shared” memory, it’s enough to run … it just becomes a performance drag (when the gpu has to pull textures from system memory, it’s much slower than the super-fast memory onboard the video card). Also it subtracts away from available system ram, which you need every bit of…
Any idea on what that means and why it’s using so much?
This is what a memory leak looks like, on a virtual memory operating system. It consumes all physical ram then spills over to fill up the pagefile.
But no idea who or what is responsible for the leak … which is why we need to see a little more data from TaskMgr to help solidify this. So far, nobody else is reporting this … and it could literally be anything … a buggy driver, a virus, some other software, whoknows.
I can believe you when you say 4.35 was ok and 4.36 is not … but I want to see the working-set and commit-charge numbers.
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@ArcherAC3 said in [BMS Crashes after time spent in flight -
@white_fang said in BMS Crashes after time spent in flight - Memory Usage warning appears moments before crash - Memory Leak issue?:
I’ve never seen pagefile at 100% and that 17GB’s
Any idea on what that means and why it’s using so much?
I’ll tune down everything I can graphics-wise and see if it helps. I’ve already closed every app running in the fore and background (even turning off the antivirus completely) besides anything essential for windows, but it didn’t seem to make any difference.Last time I saw pagefile at 100% was in win98-xp era… Forgot how many years ago.
What it means is very possibly what @seifer said , memory leak.
Unless you don’t run photoshop with ultrahigh resolution image in the background., something is eating ram for breakfast.Eh, now , till today there is no easy way to see what is using pagefile. , you may see only overall usage. commit size under performance tab.
You may try “proces explorer” (sysinternals/microsoft) , need to enable some “memory” coulums (working set … etc)
See this:
https://techcommunity.microsoft.com/t5/windows-blog-archive/pushing-the-limits-of-windows-virtual-memory/ba-p/723750Process details
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Again…
With no repro case, impossible to detect anything…
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@airtex2019 said in BMS Crashes after time spent in flight - Memory Usage warning appears moments before crash - Memory Leak issue?:
So far, nobody else is reporting this
I remembered I have an older laptop with nvidia optimus graphics… 4th gen i7 cpu + GT 750 gpu, also 2gb vram. But 16gb system ram. I dusted it off, updated Win10 and installed BMS 4.36 to give it a try.
I only flew for about 10 minutes… TR#3, starting in air, just cruising slow over south korea. The jet-engine noise coming from my laptop was very realistic, but I couldn’t lower the volume.
FalconBMS.exe process working-set seemed very stable at ~1170 Mb … commit-charge grew slowly, from ~5200 to 5309 Mb. That’s about 10 mb/min, which seems reasonable for loading new textures while cruising over Kunsan and nearby cities. Far short of the ~100-200 mb/min your system was consuming.
Total commit-charge for the entire system was ~8.5 Gb … this was very clean Win10 with nothing else running, just TaskMgr. Total active memory in use was only ~4 Gb, so you could probably expect to get by with 8 Gb, enduring some occasional stutters due to hard-faults. But if it’s possible to buy a RAM upgrade for your laptop, to get 16 Gb, I’d recommend do it.
Don’t know if that will help or solve your leak though. I don’t know where to look next.
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Thank you all for the replies again.
As soon as I fly again I’ll run the TaskMgr as suggested and update you here.@airtex2019 said in BMS Crashes after time spent in flight - Memory Usage warning appears moments before crash - Memory Leak issue?:
a buggy driver, a virus, some other software, whoknows.
On my last flights I made sure nothing else (but TeamSpeak) was running and memory usage was at the lowest possible. Ran a few antivirus complete scans but nothing was ever found. I might completely format my system and reinstall Falcon soon just to be sure - also, there’s an upgrade to Windows 11 available for me. Compared to Windows 10, does 11 tends to use less memory and be more stable overall for BMS?
@airtex2019 said in BMS Crashes after time spent in flight - Memory Usage warning appears moments before crash - Memory Leak issue?:
But if it’s possible to buy a RAM upgrade for your laptop, to get 16 Gb
I’m not completely sure yet it’s possible to upgrade the RAM on this laptop, but if so I’ll do it pretty soon. Not really in a position to build a proper rig now, but this Laptop seemed pretty stable to run BMS so far (albeit not at the best graphical settings and performance)
Thanks again!
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@ArcherAC3 Is the BMS
Config set to use hires textures or lowres? -
@ArcherAC3 said in BMS Crashes after time spent in flight - Memory Usage warning appears moments before crash - Memory Leak issue?:
It shows Display Memory (VRAM): 2010 MB and Shared Memory: 4036 MB.
Now 2010MB VRAM is simply not enough for BMS anymore?2GB is nothing for texture memory yes. Here is Dev version VRAM usage:
Yes that’s ~7GB. So you can consider 2GB as “very low”. Show me any full game/sim around that is using less than 4-5GB.
Regarding leaks, guys please stop speculating, if BMS had a SERIOUS leak we would know about it and fix it already, I’m 100% sure that BMS has SOME leaks, but those aren’t critical and happen mostly probably at entry/exit to sim or 3D. But not of those are critical, because if they were, we would know.
BMS code is getting better and safer with the years regarding memory allocations, so chances for new leaks are really low, if there are any existing leaks they are probably there since long time and so nothing that could cause a crash.
@ArcherAC3 your case is simple: Texture memory has no more room, the meaning is that the system cannot allocate new textures, that will cause a crash eventually with any app/system. You need more VRAM.
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@ArcherAC3 said in BMS Crashes after time spent in flight - Memory Usage warning appears moments before crash - Memory Leak issue?:
Compared to Windows 10, does 11 tends to use less memory
I don’t know of any real-world benchmarks to point to, but min sys req for Win10 (x64) is 2Gb RAM… Win11 is 4Gb. So, probably not a good idea without a RAM upgrade first.
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@Dee-Jay The “High Resolution Textures” box is not checked; the Low Resolution for Clouds and Reduce Particle System are checked though.
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@I-Hawk I’m NOT pushing leak or BMS issue, if any. But how to explain 17GB’s pagefile , OP case ??
His casio have 8GB’s ram , which is enough for win10… , add bms + textures (low res) in the pot … , shouldn’t exceed that much…Something is or in background, laptops can have many OEM bloatwares, or … dunno…
That will need to see Perfmon ram before and after. … or “newer”
Resource Monitor…See… total 32 , win10 in idle use ~4GB + ~4GB cached (actually, firefox running, add 500MB)
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@I-Hawk I can add to this, I have never seen .36 go over 6gb’s and I do not ever restart bms, I’ve been told to do it in .35 due to crashes but never experienced those either.
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I can’t find my post for performance and windows services to stop to increase system performance. links in my hotlist are broken probably from the forum update…
But I found this nice link in the internet.
https://www.pcerror-fix.com/windows-10-services-to-disable-for-gamingit’s not a life saver and please don’t stop all of them.
Go - read one by one what they are for. You might not need them for BMS but you might need them for normal use, so to be able to identify them and restart them in case u need them.
What I was doing always was a list in excel with service name and state before I disable them.It’s not gonna give you much but will let your system breath more and you might actually have a big difference in the lows, meaning when your system was on it’s knees.
Oh I like it so much when I use all this tech terminology… lolas I mentioned already I used a 4GB laptop for years doing serious office work for years.
Besides the unneeded stopped services GameBooster 3.5 saved the day running it - activating game mode when system got in the ui.
I know gameboster 3.5 is way old but it runs on wndows 10 and doesn’t need an account.
latest version might be better, never tried it as 3.5 did the work and i keep it like that, simple.
Hope those will help you but for sure you will learn much for your system as all flight simmers that don’t want to spend zillion of money and fight beasts when their expensive system is bottlenecked.
I’m proud till now to see waaaaaay newer computers suffer on performance while my i7 2600K has simmilar performance or a satisfactory performance with all on and a resolution of 5760x1200 on 3 monitors. and sad at the same time that guys spent their money and they have serious issues that the solution is on their reach but they don’t spent the time to isolate and solve the issues.
It’s not easy but it’s there in most of the times if hardware is not the issue.
OS and drivers are there for general use. We must learn as much as possible to master the actual operation and impact and address issues accordingly or gain performance by stopping apps and services that are not needed actually for BMS use, every bit of it…
On this quest the only factor is BMS gain and stability. If u go oh but I need this for that the other for xxx etc then u better put your hand in the pocket and go for a super trooper pc to save the trouble. Act as the setup is only for BMS since you want better results for this, and to squeeze every bit of resource the hw and os can give to it.
here is old GameBooster: https://www.mediafire.com/file/nf7pdg1qgoazvis/gb3-setup.7z/file -
@Arty Good tips, not just for gaming but for laptop battery life, when away from power cord.
Problem is it’s such a moving target … or, multiple moving targets – the OS evolves, apps and browsers evolve, and hardware evolves too. (I could probably make another list of 25 things to turn off or disable, and not overlap with that one at all.)
Eg. right now the biggest offenders I see, for RAM consumption, are things like Startup Boost in Edge which keep a loaded set of browser processes running, even after you shut it down. MS Office does this too… with its conspicuously named “OfficeClickToRun.exe” process. I suspect Google does this for Chrome, with its “GoogleCrashHandler.exe” processes, which curiously run all the time even with no browsers open.
These processes may appear to have low “private working-set” but if they share, or periodically load the startup exe/dlls into memory, it keeps them soft-faulted into virtual memory – thus avoiding the need for disk-access upon startup. But increasing overall memory pressure on the system. Normally you’d never notice… but if you’re playing a 6Gb flight sim on a 2 Gb OS on a PC with 8 Gb of RAM… suddenly it matters.
Once upon a time, I was a program manager for Windows tablet and laptop ecosystem … back when RAM was expensive and 1Gb systems were quite common. It was a constant struggle to get teams, internal and external, to not greedily consume all RAM just to make their apps startup quicker.
SSDs were expensive then too, so admittedly, sneaky tricks like this made a hugely noticeable difference. Now super-fast M.2 SSDs are the norm… but RAM is also cheap and plentiful too… so it appears many developers still do this.
Anyway… that was a past life for me. Nowadays I just enjoy low RAM prices, pay a little extra $ for twice as much RAM as I ever think I’ll need, and focus on other problems.
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sure plenty of ram is good.
BUT
not a total solution.
windows 10 and probably 11 doing a better job than 7 on resources usage but on the same time apps got more aggresive on resources and mem.
over the years many cases of unthinkable issues I have faced or seen as I’m sure many in this community that should be more experienced than me.
since win 10 and more dev detication I reduced my hunt for such issues and solutions.
Having a dry system having activated only what is needed for your BMS or in general flight sim operation is the best solution.
In the past when I was active at flying I had an SSD running windows only for Falcon. Nothing else.
Once I return back to flying I intent to do the same with windows 10.
By the passing of time we as computer users upgrade or add more applications. Having a separated install just for falcon saves you all the trouble… IIRC I had windows updates turned off and was using them only on everyday setup. once I was confident that the update or a new driver or app upgrade that was needed for falcon was ok with no issues then I upgraded on my flight setup. Always taking snapshots before any change just in case to be able to revert back to the stable setup.
In case I needed some extra software WDP MC or whatever I used my laptop with network links for folders etc to access the flight setup.
example MS win10 is ready to deploy a new upgrade to fix memory leaks among other things so windows 10 isn’t that wow of an OS still and superuser taking care is still needed specially in our case were resources on campaign can be drawn out in a snap… there your system and skills show how good it is… if it will have enough resources to cope with the load and offer you an acceptable experience and not crash or have pauses or whatever.
The parameters and options are so many that this jouerny seems like endless.
Many times I thought I had everything in order and then I discovered… ohhhh this is wrong, that’s what it does and this is how it should be setup… and not leave it on default.
Unfortunatelly there is no one ring to rule them all, every system is unique so this is a path that each one has to take on his system.The other way is ok spend 5K or more get the super trupper pc (only pc) with zilion cores 64+GB ram and 2x3090ti on sli and let’s see if we can get 1000fps on this thing to realize that in MSFS u r still on 20-40 fps… and you facepalm your self…
lol
sure in bms you will have nice 3 digits fps no matter what maybe but the cost is much and u have such power that you will never use actually and after a few years u will begin the quest for the next 5K setup…Edit: a simple thing to think… overclocking and issues… most say but I don’t overclock… well most now r on ddr4… just do a search what is the stock ddr4 speed and what is your actual system ddr4 speed… yes it’s already heavilly overclocked and you think everything is ok and smooth but why I get a crash that normally overclocked systems should?
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@Kevstosmart said in BMS Crashes after time spent in flight - Memory Usage warning appears moments before crash - Memory Leak issue?:
@I-Hawk I can add to this, I have never seen .36 go over 6gb’s and I do not ever restart bms, I’ve been told to do it in .35 due to crashes but never experienced those either.
6GB of BMS makes perfect sense to cause his system to fail. Guys he only has 8GB RAM + 2GB VRAM. If you say BMS on your system is using 6GB at times, and I assume at least 2GB, that leave ~2GB of RAM for Win 10 and everything else, and no reserve for a case where VRAM is overloaded and need to take some RAM to survive.
And BTW 2GB VRAM isn’t even that, if you will check closely you’ll see that the VRAM can never really be entirely filled and there is always some usage even with no 3D app running.
8 + 2 isn’t enough to hold BMS 4.36, so it seems.
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@I-Hawk I believe this is cleared out, obvious, and well established.
whatever next to it is just chit chat and a blind shot in the dark.
Hope dies last.
Maybe some tricks could reduce the issue. not eliminate but reduce. -
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@I-Hawk I agree! I miss read I thought he had 16gbs
8gbs now a days is very tight in regards to have some headroom for applications. -
@Arty said in BMS Crashes after time spent in flight - Memory Usage warning appears moments before crash - Memory Leak issue?:
I can’t find my post for performance and windows services to stop to increase system performance. links in my hotlist are broken probably from the forum update…
But I found this nice link in the internet.
https://www.pcerror-fix.com/windows-10-services-to-disable-for-gamingit’s not a life saver and please don’t stop all of them.
Go - read one by one what they are for. You might not need them for BMS but you might need them for normal use, so to be able to identify them and restart them in case u need them.
What I was doing always was a list in excel with service name and state before I disable them.It’s not gonna give you much but will let your system breath more and you might actually have a big difference in the lows, meaning when your system was on it’s knees.
Oh I like it so much when I use all this tech terminology… lolas I mentioned already I used a 4GB laptop for years doing serious office work for years.
Besides the unneeded stopped services GameBooster 3.5 saved the day running it - activating game mode when system got in the ui.
I know gameboster 3.5 is way old but it runs on wndows 10 and doesn’t need an account.
latest version might be better, never tried it as 3.5 did the work and i keep it like that, simple.
Hope those will help you but for sure you will learn much for your system as all flight simmers that don’t want to spend zillion of money and fight beasts when their expensive system is bottlenecked.
I’m proud till now to see waaaaaay newer computers suffer on performance while my i7 2600K has simmilar performance or a satisfactory performance with all on and a resolution of 5760x1200 on 3 monitors. and sad at the same time that guys spent their money and they have serious issues that the solution is on their reach but they don’t spent the time to isolate and solve the issues.
It’s not easy but it’s there in most of the times if hardware is not the issue.
OS and drivers are there for general use. We must learn as much as possible to master the actual operation and impact and address issues accordingly or gain performance by stopping apps and services that are not needed actually for BMS use, every bit of it…
On this quest the only factor is BMS gain and stability. If u go oh but I need this for that the other for xxx etc then u better put your hand in the pocket and go for a super trooper pc to save the trouble. Act as the setup is only for BMS since you want better results for this, and to squeeze every bit of resource the hw and os can give to it.
here is old GameBooster: https://www.mediafire.com/file/nf7pdg1qgoazvis/gb3-setup.7z/fileYeah, arty, 10 years ago, I’ve did it like this, the easiest way is to click and turn of one by one, but way soo many, for just a quick jump and play until I read a book about registry structure in windows. At those time, I got the book for windows XP, while at the same time, windows already evolve at seven. Though until now, the registry structure not changed much. I just remember at those time I did the same way just to do a musical production that involved 500 track at once. In my humble opinion, 8Gb of Ram for 4.36 is needed Upgrade tho. I’ve tested it a days before at my old machine ROG G73, and 4.36 utilize all the 8GB for just one flight at TE training ground ops at the lowest available setting. Compared to the 4.35, it is double size. So I think like this, if the minima for 4.35 is 8GB, I suggest you guys, get minima 16GB of ram for 4.36.
And, if our machine can’t get what 4.36 ask for, there always be the 4.35 ready to play. I can conform that at 4.35 U3, all high settings + OBS run in background with medium x264 encode, the game run smooth for a consecutive mission. But it different with the 4.36, one flight, the RAM already suffered, the FPS suffered, and, OBS also report dropped frame multiple time. That’s the different from 4.35 U3 to 4.36. And I do encourage to change the requirements device minimum for 4.36 into 16GB Ram minimum. Those who still use 8GB can jump into 4.35 U3.
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@I-Hawk … with all that fuss, … what a surprise…
I was looking at that mem stats, adn go to “adv setting/virtual mem” … then wtf… !!! , where is my page file ??I have 32GB ram… not too much, enough, … but what surprise was… win10 21h2 “MOVED” my pagefile to second nvme/ssd (sata3) , “D” drive AND enlarged it to 32GB.
Wow… what a surprise… no notice… nothing.
… before that upgrade pagefile was maybe? 8-16GB on “C” (sys/win) drive, … I never look at it , as “I have enough ram” , don’t bother.But now, … clearly even windows 10 wants more ram then 32GB.
I don’t know is that new “default” for windows, but this is first time I notice something like that.
I can’t grasp what would be the reason that “system managed” would do that.
Not that I care much , just seems out of ordinary.