Falcon BMS Open Source
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@Quasi_Stellar said in Falcon BMS Open Source:
Dear God… There is an entire wing of a library filled with threads and posts as to why BMS isn’t open source or payware… Where is my “beating a dead horse” emoji??
Okay, i did look at the forum and didn’t saw much about it. Just think that if BMS doesn’t make the change at some time it will slowly die (probably is already on that trend). And i think no one from here wants that.
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No… Falcon 4.0 died +20 years ago. BMS and other teams over the past two decades have fought through community changes and legal threats only to still be here. Again, this community isn’t worried about head counts and the number of files downloaded. We, the community are here, because we found a home… a long time ago. And with the current, and apparently for the past 6 years, free reign that the IP has given the Team for open development, we aren’t going anywhere. So don’t worry so much. As one of our own always says, “GOTS!!!”
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I hope you are right
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@Termi Depending how you look at it, I would think DCS has nothing to worry about with regards to BMS and vice versa. DCS is eye candy and scripted missions with different aircraft at varying levels of fidelity. BMS is as hardcore as they can make in terms of F-16 study sim with dynamic campaign.
How DCS makes money is their business and I don’t think we want that can of worms opened here. BMS is free and only requires a copy of Falcon 4.0 installed. The Falcon Collection is currently 50% off so £3.99 and full price is £7.99 at GoG which is very good value for money considering you get the Art of the Kill PDF along with it.
As for Open Source, well, IIRC if you can show the team that you have skills and you can contribute in a meaningful way, then they will let you in, which is more than reasonable if you think about it. They won’t let just anyone tinker with their baby, but if you can show you can help them improve BMS, then you have a shot. So do you have the skills they need? Or was this just a “BMS should be open source” conversation?
@Termi said in Falcon BMS Open Source:
I understand that, but it’s a shame, i don’t know how it would benefit tommo to keep the code closed, less people will be interested on buying the Falcon 4.0 and and therefore they would make less money.
I think people come to BMS to fly a fighter jet in a dynamic campaign. Open source or not isn’t really a factor they look at when they come over. Smart(er) AI, dynamic campaign, co-op MP, and other factors carry more weight, I would imagine.
@Termi said in Falcon BMS Open Source:
Just think that if BMS doesn’t make the change at some time it will slowly die (probably is already on that trend). And i think no one from here wants that.
What makes you think BMS is dying? For a project fuelled by passion, they just released 4.36 with loads of improvements. The hardware/simpit side seems to be going strong. Once DCS players hit a skill ceiling and realise the limitations of DCS, where do you think they’re going to go? Do you think a DCS Viper player who is looking for more (or maybe just gets fed up with his stupid AI wingman!!) will balk at the £3.99/£7.99 price tag of Falcon 4.0 after being in DCS where modules cost $50-$80? ED is talking about making a dynamic campaign engine. Where do you think people who want a DC now will look? Or those that are not happy with the limitations of the Liberation mod, do you think they won’t come check out BMS due to it not being open source or because of the £3.99/£7.99 price tag?
@Quasi_Stellar isn’t there a PDF or image about the history of BMS development alongside other Falcon project like Open Falcon or Free Falcon?
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@Termi FALCON DIE??
1999 met Falcon 4.0 and it was almost 40 and this continues, FALCON and all its variants including this one developed by the BMS team has been the virtual aerial simulation project that has been and will be for the longest years.
First close DCS before BMS, see you there. -
@Atlas Follow the Yellow Brick Road
https://forum.falcon-bms.com/topic/437/the-falcon-epopee-the-history-of-falcon-4?_=1655475543259 -
@Quasi_Stellar So BMS became Open Falcon then back to BMS? Interesting, I definitely missed that part! Are we sure BMS 4.32 released in 2011?? That must be wrong, I could’ve sworn it was just last Tuesday! Thanks for the link!
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Thread like this it’s just the curiosity of the future (personal opinion)
Don’t worry.
Falcon is Alive more than ever.
Enjoy your Flights
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Curious the brand new accounts created lately to complain and/or predict the demise of BMS. hmmmmm Every year same thing. BMS is dying, and yet we are here. Thanks to dedication of dev team.
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@Icarus said in Falcon BMS Open Source:
Curious the brand new accounts created lately to complain and/or predict the demise of BMS. hmmmmm Every year same thing. BMS is dying, and yet we are here. Thanks to dedication of dev team.
They’re like those old, old TOXIC girlfriends, they always come back to F…CK some more.
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Uuuh, I like, when someone talk dirty.
What, BMS open source rant… count me in@Atlas said in Falcon BMS Open Source:
@Quasi_Stellar So BMS became Open Falcon then back to BMS? Interesting, I definitely missed that part! Are we sure BMS 4.32 released in 2011?? That must be wrong, I could’ve sworn it was just last Tuesday! Thanks for the link!
Yeah, ditto, it can be compared almost with Linu/uni/X distros
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@Atlas said in Falcon BMS Open Source:
I think people come to BMS to fly a fighter jet in a dynamic campaign. Open source or not isn’t really a factor they look at when they come over. Smart(er) AI, dynamic campaign, co-op MP, and other factors carry more weight, I would imagine.
I was not trying to say open source was going to be the reason for people to play, people don’t care that much, but i was saying the effect that it would make was going to be the reason.
@Atlas said in Falcon BMS Open Source:
What makes you think BMS is dying? For a project fuelled by passion, they just released 4.36 with loads of improvements. The hardware/simpit side seems to be going strong. Once DCS players hit a skill ceiling and realise the limitations of DCS, where do you think they’re going to go? Do you think a DCS Viper player who is looking for more (or maybe just gets fed up with his stupid AI wingman!!) will balk at the £3.99/£7.99 price tag of Falcon 4.0 after being in DCS where modules cost $50-$80? ED is talking about making a dynamic campaign engine. Where do you think people who want a DC now will look? Or those that are not happy with the limitations of the Liberation mod, do you think they won’t come check out BMS due to it not being open source or because of the £3.99/£7.99 price tag?
I think a lot of the community is moving from BMS to DCS, obviously not everyone, there is people very pasionate that won’t move, but most people yes. As much as some don’t care the truth is that for almost everyone is an important factor things like graphics (yes, this is a simulator, and that is the first requirement, but people also gives graphics a lot of importance because that is like “simulating real life look”). I think BMS is really good on some things, much better than DCS, but the more time passes DCS looks more like the future.
@Icarus said in Falcon BMS Open Source:
Curious the brand new accounts created lately to complain and/or predict the demise of BMS. hmmmmm Every year same thing. BMS is dying, and yet we are here. Thanks to dedication of dev team.
This is a new account, that doens’t mean im new on this. I started on the aircraft combat simulation with BMS 4 years ago but my group moved to DCS 2 years ago, and i also saw that change on a lot of youtube channels. I have another account from the older forum but doens’t remember the credentials so i created this new one.
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@Icarus said in Falcon BMS Open Source:
“This is a new account, that doens’t mean im new on this. I started on the aircraft combat simulation with BMS 4 years ago but my group moved to DCS 2 years ago, and i also saw that change on a lot of youtube channels. I have another account from the older forum but doens’t remember the credentials so i created this new one.”
@Termi
Then you should know better. If you said these things on DCS forum about DCS you would get banned. -
@Icarus said in Falcon BMS Open Source:
@Icarus said in Falcon BMS Open Source:
Then you should know better. If you said these things on DCS forum about DCS you would get banned.Im not trying to be offensive, because my group moved to DCS doesn’t mean i don’t like BMS, it was my first real simulator, i really like it and want the best for it. That is why i did this post, if i didn’t care i wouldn’t take the time to write it.
I would love to have my group also playing BMS and i already convinced one to try it, but is true that there is some flaws that makes it less attractive to a lot of people and bureaucracy aside (i dind’t know) i think open source could be a revolution for this, but i understand there are reasons that make that unlikely to happen.
Just tried to help. -
@Termi said in Falcon BMS Open Source:
@Icarus said in Falcon BMS Open Source:
@Icarus said in Falcon BMS Open Source:
Then you should know better. If you said these things on DCS forum about DCS you would get banned.Im not trying to be offensive, because my group moved to DCS doesn’t mean i don’t like BMS, it was my first real simulator, i really like it and want the best for it. That is why i did this post, if i didn’t care i wouldn’t take the time to write it.
I would love to have my group also playing BMS and i already convinced one to try it, but is true that there is some flaws that makes it less attractive to a lot of people and bureaucracy aside (i dind’t know) i think open source could be a revolution for this, but i understand there are reasons that make that unlikely to happen.
Just tried to help.Ok . So now you know it aint’ happenin."
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well that suggestion is a bit out of topic on it’s birth. Besides what Mirv said the current state is a transition state. So don’t forget that.
BMS just entered the DX11 era and for sure it hasn’t shown or taken advantage of the potential that DX11 has to offer to the platform.
Already many things are kinda announced so the posts for gfx and disadvantages fall in to this and the fact that there is no actual competition and we don’t care what DCS does. Paid vs non paid here… different “all”, just the same game category.
In the past I was also full in on open source… that was times of trouble…and open source sounded to me as the only case for Falcon continuation…
Now with the years that passed and Falcon proving that it will never die and seeing things from a new perspective you just can’t imagine how open falcon is.
Not in the meaning of open source exposed code and contribution but in the sense that if you truly are knowledgeable and dedicated to it the doors are already screaming at you to join in and start doing things.
Exposing everything out in the open will only bring more trouble… the team has it’s pace and you just can’t imagine the continues effort done to reduce issues and structure things up for the future. If it goes full open then this will be in danger and could cause greater issues than solve. Believe me the monster is always there waiting for the next fighter…
So you don’t really want it to go out in the wild… better think how you could get in and fight it… make it better.
Are you up to it?
We always want to make it even better and everyone is invited… -
@Arty said in Falcon BMS Open Source:
Not in the meaning of open source exposed code and contribution but in the sense that if you truly are knowledgeable and dedicated to it the doors are already screaming at you to join in and start doing things.
Are you up to it?
We always want to make it even better and everyone is invited…I’m an informatics engineering student, i would like to help but i have no experience so…
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well, that’s easy to change. Get coding. It sounds weird that you’re a student but don’t have any previous coding experience.
What made you choose IT / coding as a career path then?
All the best, Uwe
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@Termi said in Falcon BMS Open Source:
I was not trying to say open source was going to be the reason for people to play, people don’t care that much, but i was saying the effect that it would make was going to be the reason.
Not really clear what your trying to say here. 99% of users won’t care if the project is open source or not, what they will care about is whether the product works or not. The only people who may care about open source vs not open source are mods and other devs, in which case they can present their skills to the current devs and can get access if their skillset is required, so in that case, no need for open source.
Having said that, I’m not sure why you’re talking about this like it’s an important factor. Bring this concept up with DCS and see how long before you get banned from their forums or ridiculed by their mods.
@Termi said in Falcon BMS Open Source:
I think a lot of the community is moving from BMS to DCS,
What makes you say people are moving from BMS to DCS? Personally, I think you have it the other way around. Why would someone go from a dynamic campaign engine and a vibrant, thriving theatre to… scripted missions?
People may go from BMS to DCS to check out what’s new. Playing one does not mean the simmer cannot play the other. I myself have quite a few modules and theatres and I fly DCS when I just want to admire the graphics. VR in the Viper is fun! But in the long run, when you hit a certain skill level, I think DCS will really show what is lacking and if people really want to progress, the next step is BMS. That’s not to say people will stick to DCS, there are many factors that will keep people from going to BMS such as their flight group not flying BMS or want to fly a different airframe. Nothing wrong with that at all. A good majority may even be casual simmers and not hit that skill ceiling in DCS so they won’t really feel the need (for speed??) for anything more than DCS. Nothing wrong with that either!
@Termi said in Falcon BMS Open Source:
the truth is that for almost everyone is an important factor things like graphics (yes, this is a simulator, and that is the first requirement, but people also gives graphics a lot of importance because that is like “simulating real life look”). I think BMS is really good on some things, much better than DCS, but the more time passes DCS looks more like the future.
Graphics - DCS wins no questions.
Everything else - BMS.If you want to simulate real life look, take screenshots, etc. then by all means DCS. If you want to simulate a theatre that’s alive, missions that connect with each other, where the effects of one mission will affect the priorities of the following frags, then BMS. If all you want is eye candy, then this isn’t the place for you. If you want to worry about hitting ToT and fuel states and keeping SA and all the other fighter pilot stuff, then this is the place to be. If you get a rush looking at beautiful sunsets over clouds and the overall image looking very lifelike, then DCS is where you’ll get that. If you get a rush from deviating from your mission planning due to a new threat but still being able to hit your target, egress under fire, hit the tanker, etc., this is the place to be.
@Termi said in Falcon BMS Open Source:
I’m an informatics engineering student, i would like to help but i have no experience so…
Hopefully you’ll get skills that will get you into the dev team! At that point, I think you will no longer care whether BMS is open source or not and you may even appreciate why BMS is not open source… too many cooks and all that.
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I guess this is clear that it isn’t can’t won’t ever be opensource for all the reasons that have been discussed so many times over the years.
Sorry but this topic needs to end…
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