Training features request
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@Atlas said in Training features request:
so someone flies with his speedbrakes on and this someone has been flying for 10 years now?
My read is OP runs a virtual-training-squadron. He is training others who make dumb mistakes sometimes. And is asking for small quality-of-life features that would apply to that scenario.
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Everyone can do a mistake and hit accidentally the speedbrake button even if he is flying 110 years!!!
If this mistake creates let’s say 800lbs difference i want the flight to be able to take the decision and clear the wingman to take back those 800lbs. Another thing that can happen is to have a tricky throttle causing AB detent to lose the setting. But this is not the only reason to add this feature.
Here is a tactical example.
We have a DCA flight with 30 minutes VUL TIME. Let’s say that bad fuel managment is done and there are 5 minutes remaining. It can be predefined that in such occasion the aircrafts may take some fuel in the air in order to cover the vul time BUT during the debriefing is going to be stated that DCA failed regardless the outcome of the mission. This way we extract two conclusions. The first one is that DCA failed, and the second one is that if a good fuel management was done the package could hit the target or not.
That way the COMAO can deploy all the tactics that were planned till the last minute. Of course we fly with invulnerability and with the ‘cheat’ of a sound signal when you are hitted.Provided that we all want the same thing here and not cheat, which is happening in our squadron, this is a great tool!
May be many people find this unrealistic and a good opportunity to cheat but if this is used wisely and corectly is a realism multiplier.
And for those who are offended because their realistic way of flying is decreased only with idea of adding this I will say one thing, at the end of the day the only guy who knows if you flew as real as it gets is YOU and that affects only you!
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@Ironman3 said in Training features request:
accidentally the speedbrake button even if he is flying 110 years
Somewhere I remember hearing/reading from RL viper drivers, that this happens… that it’s hard to “feel” the effect of the brakes, just cruising along at level flight. And especially at night or foul weather, when pilots can’t see each other. So, one develops the habit of semi-obsessively thumbing the brake-close switch.
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@airtex2019 said in Training features request:
My read is OP runs a virtual-training-squadron. He is training others who make dumb mistakes sometimes. And is asking for small quality-of-life features that would apply to that scenario.
Fair enough, but sometimes, paying for one’s mistakes not only makes one internalise the lesson more, it can lead to interesting scenarios as well! I would wager that a failed mission but with important lessons learned is far more valuable than a successful mission but no new lessons learned.
@airtex2019 said in Training features request:
Somewhere I remember hearing/reading from RL viper drivers, that this happens… that it’s hard to “feel” the effect of the brakes, just cruising along at level flight. And especially at night or foul weather, when pilots can’t see each other. So, one develops the habit of semi-obsessively thumbing the brake-close switch.
Maybe true especially if it’s only partial brakes open. Not enough to be noticeable maybe but a small increase in fuel burn can really mess your maths and endurance time! I check on my airbrake switch and glance at my speedbrake indicator every now and again when flying.
@Ironman3 said in Training features request:
Everyone can do a mistake and hit accidentally the speedbrake button even if he is flying 110 years!!!
Of course! However, one can then notice the inability to maintain speed and the need for excessive throttle to hold the agreed cruising speed. One should be able to notice something is wrong and diagnose the cause and apply the corrective action. Are the brakes or gear out? Is there a problem with the engine or fuel flow? Is the HUD airspeed the same as the one indicated in the gauge? In this case, it’s a simple glance at the speedbrake indicator and double-checking the speedbrake switch on the throttle would confirm the issue. Having the speedbrake open for so long that you are no longer able to complete the mission and not noticing it for all that time isn’t really a mistake that someone flying for a significant amount of time would make.
@Ironman3 said in Training features request:
If this mistake creates let’s say 800lbs difference i want the flight to be able to take the decision and clear the wingman to take back those 800lbs. Another thing that can happen is to have a tricky throttle causing AB detent to lose the setting. But this is not the only reason to add this feature.
Lead, 3
go for Lead
Um, ah, we’ll have to hit the tanker before fence, numbnuts here was flying with his airbrakes out since we took off
Seriously?
Yeah
We’ll have to give him a new callsign when we get back
Yeah, I’ve already got a list in my headIt’ll be a fun story and a learning experience!
@Ironman3 said in Training features request:
Here is a tactical example.
We have a DCA flight with 30 minutes VUL TIME. Let’s say that bad fuel managment is done and there are 5 minutes remaining. It can be predefined that in such occasion the aircrafts may take some fuel in the air in order to cover the vul time BUT during the debriefing is going to be stated that DCA failed regardless the outcome of the mission. This way we extract two conclusions. The first one is that DCA failed, and the second one is that if a good fuel management was done the package could hit the target or not.
That way the COMAO can deploy all the tactics that were planned till the last minute. Of course we fly with invulnerability and with the ‘cheat’ of a sound signal when you are hitted.Provided that we all want the same thing here and not cheat, which is happening in our squadron, this is a great tool!
That is a LOT of bad fuel management if you can’t sneak in 5 minutes of flying time. Why not make the person pay for it? Eat into your Joker/Bingo time and pay for it by having to hit the tanker on the way back. Not only do you get your lesson in the hard way, you get to polish your tanking skills too!
But you already fly with invul on, why not just fly with unlimited fuel on too?
@Ironman3 said in Training features request:
May be many people find this unrealistic and a good opportunity to cheat but if this is used wisely and corectly is a realism multiplier.
And for those who are offended because their realistic way of flying is decreased only with idea of adding this I will say one thing, at the end of the day the only guy who knows if you flew as real as it gets is YOU and that affects only you!
Of course! Enjoy the sim as you see fit! Just throwing out counter ideas as I’m curious how/why you feel this need but at the end of the day, cheat as much as you want if that’s the way you’re having fun! The beauty of BMS is that most of our scenarios are co-op missions so as long as everyone’s on the same page, or maybe have the new guy on the needed assists, if we’re all having fun, it’s a win!
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Last word from my side…
Apply for our Iniochos exercise in a few months. Anyone who participated, especially as flight leader, the last 2 years know what I mean…
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@Ironman3 said in Training features request:
Last word from my side…
Apply for our Iniochos exercise in a few months. Anyone who participated, especially as flight leader, the last 2 years know what I mean…
@Ironman3 said in Training features request:
Guys i don’t expect to understand the way we fly. In order to realize what we do just wait for the next Iniohos exercise the following October hosted by e-haf and apply for a slot.
I am not going to try anymore to explain why we may need those features because will take many posts. Just try to participate in our next exercise and you will find out that BMS can be handled with many interesting ways.
Sorry mate but at this point, I don’t know what to expect. Is it a realism thing? Then why ask for instant refuel? Is it an arcade thing? Then why mention fuel management? Answering the question by “just join the exercise” or “anyone who participated will know what I mean” doesn’t really cut it as it doesn’t give any answers.
Like I said, there seems to be a disconnect somewhere and… well, just wish you all the best and good luck on your exercise.
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Sorry but I will answer with a question…
Have you ever visited a real simulator? I mean a real one for example an F16 simulator at an airbase.
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@Ironman3 I think you just need to give your pilots this talk…
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@Ironman3 I fail to see how whether or not I have has any bearing on you being able to answer my questions. I also doubt that if an F-16 pilot in a real simulator at an airbase messes up his fuel management so badly that he can’t continue the mission or hit a tanker, that the trainer will just magically give him a few thousand pounds of fuel so that he can finish his mission and not just fail the pilot outright for not being able to do a simple task (fuel management and monitoring) that a Cessna 150 civilian pilot will be taught during his private pilot training.
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Your request is not unusual, it is just that the BMS team has no interest to dig in that direction. At some point the line is drawn and we do not serve the same purpose as a real life F- 16 Simulator . Simulators in real life are not meant for the pilots to have fun, they are there for pilots to train to apply procedures, train on them and pass checkrides that don’t require flying time.
BMS is to have fun and mimic what happens in the air as realistically as possible. BMS does not simulate an F-16 simulator with an instructor console in the back where the IP can make your life look like hell with the flip of a switch or where he can reset you with your tanks full and a full loadout.
Fuel management is a big thing in aviation, and if Lead messes up his fuel because he forgot to put the speedbrakes back in, well this is part of the learning curve. Shit happens.
Again, BMS team has the right to say no and i think the reasons why we say no are as legit as your requests.
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It seems you see BMS as game mostly.
I want to be able to use it as a simulator too!
That fact that a trainer may want to put fuel in the aircraft is to continue the exercise in order to see if the student is ok with this part regardless if the student failed due to bad fuel management.
But realy tell me… Is so bad to add a feature that a REAL SIMULATOR HAS?
Are the constructors of the real simulators dump to add those kind of options? Can you question them?
I think not. But guys I understand that most people here see BMS as a game and the only thing that matter for them is to take medals during campaign. Personally I never fly vs AI with very few exceptions
I can’t explain to you the way we use BMS and the only way to see it is to participate in our exercise or just enter our discord server (i can send it if you want) and observe some flights.
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Absolutely agreed!!!
I stated that I comoletely understand that priorities are different because BMS is a game to have fun.
The only thing that pushed me to asked is that it seems easy to add this option.
The discussion now is to explain why i eant that thing!
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@Ironman3 said in Training features request:
It seems you see BMS as game mostly.
I want to be able to use it as a simulator too!
I understand that most people here see BMS as a game and the only thing that matter for them is to take medals during campaign.On the contrary, I’m here because BMS is a simulator… unlike other offerings. Please do not make assumptions. I have zero regard for my in-game pilot rankings or medals, but have more regard for my own set of skills and way of thinking.
@Ironman3 said in Training features request:
That fact that a trainer may want to put fuel in the aircraft is to continue the exercise in order to see if the student is ok with this part regardless if the student failed due to bad fuel management.
Of course, I agree with you there. But go and re-read my earlier posts. The disconnect here is that you want to be able to magically add fuel but you also realise the importance of fuel management. If fuel management is important, then why add fuel? If fuel management is NOT important, then why not just use the unlimited fuel option? “Join our exercise” is not an answer to those questions and if you can answer the questions on your Discord server, why can’t you answer the questions here?
@Ironman3 said in Training features request:
But realy tell me… Is so bad to add a feature that a REAL SIMULATOR HAS?
No, I’m not saying that. What I’m saying is why can’t you use the options already available – unlimited fuel and unlimited ammo? How are you conducting your flights or training that these options do not fulfil your requirements?
But at this point, I’ve asked numerous times already and I guess you’re never going to answer so I guess we’ll just leave it at that. I’d just want to say again that it’s nothing against you or how you or your group fly and enjoy the game, I was just curious about your seemingly unique requirements and wanted to know more.
All the best and good luck! At the end of the day, if we exit BMS with big smiles on our faces, who cares what cheats or non-cheats we’ve used?
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@Ironman3 said in Training features request:
The reason for that is that I want to simulate follow-on aircrafts without exiting the 3d world. For example, in case a DCA formation is down it can go to a regeneration area, add some fuel and be back as a new formation. With CATM missiles weapon configuration is not a problem at least for Air To Air weapons.
The option of air refuelling demands a lot of time and skills and the unlimited fuel option is not realistic as fuel management is a critical task by itself.This is the reason and I posted it on my very first post.
So let’s close it here. I am sure that some people got what I want to say.
As said in previous posts we will always find ways to serve our needs and in the end exit with big smiles. -
Is there an option for unlimited ammo? Couldn’t find it
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@jayb said in Training features request:
Is there an option for unlimited ammo? Couldn’t find it
Instant Action…
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Yeah, so there is no unlimited ammo option for training TEs, only unlimited fuel.
Thx,
JayB -
@Atlas said in Training features request:
Of course, I agree with you there. But go and re-read my earlier posts. The disconnect here is that you want to be able to magically add fuel but you also realise the importance of fuel management. If fuel management is important, then why add fuel? If fuel management is NOT important, then why not just use the unlimited fuel option? “Join our exercise” is not an answer to those questions and if you can answer the questions on your Discord server, why can’t you answer the questions here?
Let’s take the following cases into account:
CASE 1
COMAO vs DCA (16 human)
COMAO
4 x OCA
2 x SEAD
2 x SEAD/ESCORT
4 x STRIKECAP
4 x CAP-
WHY WE CANNOT USE UNLIMITED FUEL?:* Simply because the VUL & TOT times will have absolutely no meaning.
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in favour of the realism because in our area the propability of AAR is remote, but, the possibility of QRAs from READINESS aircraft is very probable. That for, we thought that the only way to simulate the QRAs (with human) is if the first 2 DEAD DCA (INVUL. ON) players can go back to a “REGEN AREA” approx. 30 miles out and recommit at a specific time. (for these 2 players we have these 46 posts.)
CASE 2
Advanced Training School
4-Ship Flight
The syllabus for the flight is as follows:
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Tactical Departure / VFR
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Join up in OFFSET BOX
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G-Warm UP/ WSC
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Tactical Turns
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3 sets of of perch setups per element
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2 setups tactical intercepts
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RTB/ IFR
It generally takes me some time to prepare briefing, TAC, and also to find a common day with the other three members of the flight.
I would rather use the so called “cheat” If for any reason one of the flight members drinks more fuel that the rest and finish the exercise instead of getting the formation back to ground. (ofcourse the drinker would have to bring the beers for the debrief)
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@kodi @Ironman3 I think you guys probably already know this trick, but for anyone who doesn’t…
set g_bBrakeOnHud 1
Will add a little 1-10 indicator for speedbrake at the lower-left corner of HUD.
A small sacrifice of realism/fidelity for basic quality of life… but tbh it sounds like the real viper cockpit could use a more visible indicator.