AIM 120
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Because the aim120 are not guiding to the targets but to a position where the FCR believes that the target is.
The accuracy of this FCR estimation is very dépendant on FCR submode
On TWS which is the worst , the accuracy on position and speeds are very poor. When the aim120 then activated his seeker , he will look at the position where it believes the target is. But in reality this target can be miles out. If other targets are within the seeker it will pick up those ones.
The aim120 can not check if the target it’s seeker picks up is the same of the original
From FCR
This is why having q clear avenue of
Fire is crucial
If you want to maximize your chance to pick up the correct target , fire in STt…and even then it tWo contacts are very close there will be no garantee that the aim120 will pick the original oneNo doubt that STT is more precise than TWS, but this example makes it clear that something is off. TWS tracks would not have an error of 6nm. If they did, they would not even be able to build and maintain the track files, because there would be far too much uncertainty. If the radar is confusing the tracks at 4nm for the ones at 10nm, than the correlation algorithims would be going nuts because they would be seeing 4 targets in the same zone. Range, doppler, and angle accuracy in TWS is going to be the same as that in search for the actual radar hits. Even HPRF radars that must rely are far less accurate FM ranging have much better range accuracy than that (and thats talking true range, not apparent). And there is more than enough dwell time during the raster scan to obtain sufficiently accurate apparent range, doppler, and angle information even of closely space targets unless they are so close that they are inside the same res cell, and even then there are ways of resolving that problem.
In this particular example, we have a MPRF only radar and the first set of targets in virtually certainly inside the first interval of Ru, and the second set of targets is right on the edge. There is not possibility of overlapping in apparent range. The targets probably also have different doppler, and the have different angles. All of these things go into the TWS logic.
What appears to have actually happened here is that there is something missing from the datalink logic and when the missile went pitbull, almost immediately after coming off the rail given the range, it was not told to ignore the closer in targets.
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I seem to be getting better results with AIM-120B than C in 4.36.
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Hello
Same impression for me too .
Anyway, we want the U1 now
Tired of this kind of thing, happened again last night:
- F16 : FL 246 mach 1.03
- Enemy F15 : FL 248, mach 1.84
- almost head to head
The F16 shoots an A120C to F15C at 8 nautical miles.
After only 8 nautical miles of flight, the A120C is slower than the F15 which has turned around (180 ° !) , and the missile misses.In order to shoot down an F15 or SU30 head to head, it must be shot at less than 5 nautical miles with an A120C.
Maybe the good loading is to be only with AIM9X ?
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@Rouge1512 acmi available for sharing?
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Here it is.
Two examples in this short extract:
1st example: shot by myself:
F16 - A120 C - ASL 24 500 - M 1.04
vs
F15 - ASL 2500 M 0.72 (which is dogging a chopper)
Shooting at 12.5 nautical miles
In spite of the difference of altitude and speed, the F15 manages to make a 180° turn and to flee. But one can still consider that the F15 being low, the density of the air slowed down my missile a lot, a lot…2nd example which is the best, a few moments later. The shooter is my wingman Choch who is at my southwest at the beginning of the ACMI.
The conditions of his shooting are those I quoted above.
His F15 made a turn at 880 knots and 10.2 G.These facts are not exceptional : they are the new norm.
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Please pace yourselves guys
No need to search and argue around this.
You can resume those discussions once U1 is out… -
@Rouge1512 said in AIM 120:
Thank you very much.
This gives us a chance to hope that the U1 will change that… good news
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Actually the fix will not make into U1. U2 for sure.
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@Seifer What? Are you saying the AIM-120 guidance issue won’t be fixed yet with U1? Can’t wait for this issue being fixed as it literally put most of our proper BVR training on pause. Issue of RWR won’t spike at 32nm+ hopefully will be fixed too with U1. I can wait longer for the release of U1 but please don’t release U1 with these issues unfixed.
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@Osprey things are not this simple. Everytime we build a new package, it has to go through all testing process again. And if we open the door for one “innocent” fix, we open for others as well. And eventually, something not so innocent goes in and breaks our release.
We are trying to better organize our releases, and this fix didnt make it in time for final. But keep in mind we are doing this to have a quicker U2 after that.
Have in mind that some ppl cannot play 4.36 at all due to an important bug related to threadrippers. We also have memory leaks which are fixed. Those definitely cannot wait.
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The most importants bugs are fixed in U1
Namely the problem of retarget ting after a HPRF lock lost
What did not make in U1 is a aim120C drag fix that makes it less efficient than a aim120B in case of target manoeuvering
I won’t comment about the TWS va STT Probability of Guidance as there is nothing to comment about
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And btw aim120 seeker is able to orientate its seeker but NOT scan.
does this mean that firing a “maddog” is not actually implemented? because earlier in 4.35, i had created a scenario in the dogfight module in order to test this. i tried firing all 6 slammers in BORE mode at about 15 oncoming bombers (i used bombers to obtain the biggest target RCS possible) at an altitude of 25000ft. first i locked the one in the rearmost and waited until it entered R-tr (Range turn & run), broke the lock, pitched up a bit and fired all my AMRAAMs in the general direction of the targets. i watched the ACMI tapes of my several attempts just to see the missiles follow their ballistic trajectory everytime without picking up any of the targets. some of the missiles flew very close by the bombers.
i did not try this anywhere other than the dogfight module, though.
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The maddog mode is very well implemented in 4.36.
Let’s make another try -
@Rouge1512
i just did. if you just press uncage and shoot when in SLAV mode without a bugged target, the missile is fired but it does not pick up anything. you have to switch to BORE mode on the SMS page. then, the missiles track and splash some targets. i think the avionics should either assume a bore shot when you long press uncage and pickle in SLAV mode or it should not allow the missile to leave the rail to avoid trashing an AMRAAM in that case. -
@Mav-jp I was wondering why all the 120Cs couldn’t seem to catch up to dragging bandits when released in tgt manoeuvre zones of the amraams. Switching loadout to 120Bs until U1.
THANKS!
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@tulpar
if you just press uncage and shoot when in SLAV mode without a bugged target, the missile is fired and it does pick up immediately a plane in front of it if the range is less than or equal to 5.6 nm --> a kind of self-defense mode which is the main reason, normally, for using the Maddog .In fact, in maddog mode the missile searches during all its flight with its radar range filtered to this distance
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@tulpar IIRC it was uncage and cursor enable at the same time for AIM-120 to go Maddog…
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