Falcon BMS 4.37 SIM MODE Thoughts
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A few of us were very intrigued when we saw SIM mode in BMS. Before we would use Korea Training Theater for our PvP air combat training sessions and we had a blast. Now that it has been added to BMS we had to try it out. Here are some key points that we noticed when we performed a few engagements.
There are 2 tones that represent 3 different events. Those events are CATM Missile Fire, Dead Tone and Kill Tone.
Both tones are similar to the uncage of an AIM9
Short Low Tone - Ownship CATM Missile Shoot
Long High Tone - Dead Tone (You have been hit) and Kill Tone (you hit something)Dead Tone and Kill Tone should not be the same sound.
Kill Tone thoughts - This should not have a sound. It should just be called by the dead then should fly away and get below a floor if established and act dead. The shot aircraft should not know if they killed someone. It would be negative training to give feedback from a kill.
Dead Tone Thoughts - This is great we needed a obvious way to tell if we were shot this gets the job done, but it is very similar to the uncage sound of an AIM9 could be confused. We noticed that both aircraft received the dead tone when one is hit by a CATM we were about 3k feet apart. Thoughts would be to decrease that impact bubble. When we were separated this did not happen only the one hit would hear the dead tone.
Active Radar Homing CATM and RWR behavior - Indicates just like it was live
DLZ - Just like it was live
Take away
SIM mode opens a lot of doors especially for effective training
Remove the kill tone from the shooter -
@chihirobelmo is there guy behind this new piece of code…
You should check with him
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@AviationPlus - AFAIK, there are no tones associated with CATMs (or SIM) in RL as CATMs do not contain any such internal electronics…however, such tones may be appropriate for use with ACMI pods…dunno.
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In our squadron we implement this kind of feature back when 4.34 was out.
We wanted to know if any of us was killed in order to do a regeneration procedure.
We ve done it while flying 4.35 and 4.36 with EMF theater. I remember that the key is define the sound as internal cockpit sound and set the minimum bubble. As for the activation distance you can set a number around the blast radius of the catm missiles.
Check this video too
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@Stevie said in Falcon BMS 4.37 SIM MODE Thoughts:
@AviationPlus - AFAIK, there are no tones associated with CATMs (or SIM) in RL as CATMs do not contain any such internal electronics…however, such tones may be appropriate for use with ACMI pods…dunno.
As a simple explanation in RL there are parameters that are known that constitutes a kill so when an aircraft fires the judge is the GCI/AWACs based on those parameters of the two aircraft. Then it is verified in Debrief.
The beeps we hear in BMS is a perfect use of simulation and not subjective to judgement from humans.
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@Ironman3 said in Falcon BMS 4.37 SIM MODE Thoughts:
In our squadron we implement this kind of feature back when 4.34 was out.
We wanted to know if any of us was killed in order to do a regeneration procedure.
We ve done it while flying 4.35 and 4.36 with EMF theater. I remember that the key is define the sound as internal cockpit sound and set the minimum bubble. As for the activation distance you can set a number around the blast radius of the catm missiles.
Check this video too
This is a good way to do it especially for larger events messing with the transponder. That kill sound is very scary.
We have done many PvP RedFlag events and we just have a dead floor and regen procedures.
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@AviationPlus
We ve changed the sound after the event because was indeed very scary/annoying.Mystic_j created another sound for it, something like a horn. He or me can provide it if there is any interest to add it.
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@Ironman3 The beeps that are in BMS are great just need to remove the kill tone.
There are other changes that I would like but those would but just small changes that aren’t particularly needed.
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To be honest I didn’t have time “to be killed l” by a CATM to here the beep
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I haven’t been able to install 4.37 yet, but curious about this feature. Does the sim/catm only work between human players in multiplayer or does it work with AI too? Is there something about the catm in the manuals? I looked for it, but couldn’t find it. Maybe I wasn’t looking in the right place.
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@AviationPlus - there are a couple RL approaches, the first is to use own-ship onboard sensors like the radar and intercept plots against ROE, and review tapes in debrief. This is the most used method.
Second, I’ve also personally played Fight Controller on a TACTS Range - in this case, you get realtime and debrief presentations (very) similar to TACView, and this supported using TACTS/ACMI pods - not CATMs, though CATMs are generally also carried if/as available. (One of the more interesting things I observed was how often the fights ended in mutual kills…I certainly didn’t expect that.)
There are still no tones involved when operating on the TACTS Range, though…other than the ability to select the option to broadcast a tone for trigger/pickle down for the two platforms I got to play with. Dunno if the Viper has this option/ability.
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@Stevie said in Falcon BMS 4.37 SIM MODE Thoughts:
@AviationPlus - there are a couple RL approaches, the first is to use own-ship onboard sensors like the radar and intercept plots against ROE, and review tapes in debrief. This is the most used method…
Much appreciated that you shared for the real world procedure with all your amazing experience and some VFWs may be able to add those in.
But honestly in the world of hobby especially in a training environment of new/returning BMS simmers, instant feedback on hit is probably more desirable than waiting for the Tacview debrief or having a not always available F4Radar controller calling the kills for you.
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@Snake122 - not F4Radar…your own FCR. And AVMS.
You should be able to tell from your own radar display if your shot tracked to intercept or not - at least for an AMRAAM, a heater wouldn’t be possible (even in RL), but the ROE boils down to if you took a valid shot or not - and that you can get from AVMS review.
Sort of the more cool way (particularly for a VFS), in that it requires after-action with participants in MP…and/or review of your own AVMS and other players. It also forces/trains you to pay more attention to what is happening in realtime.
Which brings up another point - if you are really “training” (which is what the "“T” in “CATM” stands for), you are training to a set of rules which describe/dictate a valid vs invalid shot…and that is really what matters. Hit vs miss is a bit secondary, as a valid shot is the one with the higher probability of intercept. I haven’t RTFM to see if applicable A/A Training Rules are included in the BMS documents currently, but it’s sounding like they need to be if they aren’t. Would certainly add something (very) constructive to MP.
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@Tomcatter31 I have noticed that the AI defends when necessary
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my bad…there is no kill tone but I’m implementing dead tone as too big explosion sound so if you fly near dead man hit you hear dead sound too…I’ll try fix it
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@AviationPlus
I have noticed that the AI defends when necessaryThey probably can’t tell the difference between the invisible and (mostly) harmless CATM coming at them vs. live missiles, I suppose.
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@chihirobelmo That makes sense then. There were a few times when we were doing BVR testing but after we shot we did not turn cold. Turned out we both heard the tone we were still at least 10 miles away from one another. Glad to do some testing and give feedback. Great work either way
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@falcon4 The CATM missile still gives a missile spike so I think that is why
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@falcon4 - that actually makes all the sense in the world, given that: 1) you wouldn’t carry CATM into combat; and 2) the AI would have to be modified to know your load out and act differently…HUGE ask!
So red AI bogeys are going to continue to act as they always have - which is why CATM are really only useful in MP with friendly, cooperative targets…just like in RL.
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Yeah, it’s actually a really simple but clever trick. By shooting invisible, (mostly) harmless missiles you get perfect simulation of what an actual missile would do and the AI responds as if it got shot at.
Regarding CATMs into combat, I’ve seen pictures of Turkish Vipers with CATMs and a live 9M or two. I guess it is due to the proximity and tension with Greece. That really puts some extra pressure on the pilot to make sure he’s doing all the right things.