F15 firing an AIM120 C at 43 nautical miles on an F16 with its ECM on
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Thank you.
It seemed to me that there was only the F15 aggressor and maybe the Israeli F15 that was in Ku (EW: J - Program 5).
The APG-63 and the AN/APG-70 of the US F15 are both given as transmitting in X band (EW: I - Program 4).
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It was in the 4.37 ou inU1 documentation I think, but maybe it has changed (not found in the new doc)
![aba77a67-214e-4282-be46-87de203aac6a-image.png] (https://i.imgur.com/nBmxxR7.png)
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Does anyone have the reference of a document related to the world of BMS in which we could find the band for the F15 radar?
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All F15 use Band J => Program 5
That explains your issues with Program4 activated only
In orer to be sure, just fly XMT1 or 2 and look at which Program is going from Active to Transmit when F15 locks you
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Thanks a lot.
Is there anyone who can find this in the BMS documentation?
I canāt get the mouse back on it.
If one searchs on Internet, as written, the radar of F15 is given in band X. -
@Rouge1512 The Threat Guide page 65. Obvious init
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Well , if āFtrsā is F15, it is really obvious ā¦ but we have also an Ftrs in the I column .
So, what does mean Ftrs ?
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@Rouge1512 Ftrs = Fighters
The chevron above indicates that, so you can see the F-14 is H band.
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I thought we could access the previous updatesā documentations in the wiki, but we can only access the last update of the last 2 versions : 4.35.3 et 4.36.3 (and 4.37.2 of course).
I suppose we can say that all fightersā radars are in I or J bands (Program 5), appart for very few exceptions including F-14 in H band (Program 4). Isnāt it ?Is there other fighters (or aircrafts) outside the J&K bands ?EDIT :
My mistake, I mixed Bands and Progams.
ECM Program 4 = Bands H&I
ECM Program 5 = Bands J&KSo, as Fighters are mainly in I or J bands, you would need to use, by default Program 4 and Program 5. Deactivating Program 4 only when you want to get ride of the 30% FCRās detection capability degradation due to jamming on I band (F-16C Radar band).
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Thanks a lot.
As Checkpoint points out, there is obviously an efficiency bonus for those who have the time to try their ECM against all aircrafts to determine what band their radar is transmitting in, but it would be nice if this data was provided more clearly in documentation, as it had begun to be in the early 4.37 documents.
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@Rouge1512 Math is simpleā¦
BMS is more or less 15 really active peopleā¦We canāt cover all groundsā¦
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Hello @MaxWaldorf
My semantic was not aggressive and did not come across as reproachful.
Being fully aware of what you write, it was just a solicitation to put it in the āto doā list, at the priority place that can only be of your choice. -
My mistake, I mixed Bands and Progams in my previous post
@CheckPoint said
I suppose we can say that all fightersā radars are in I or J bands (Program 5), appart for very few exceptions including F-14 in H band (Program 4). Isnāt it ?
Is there other fighters (or aircrafts) outside the J&K bands ?This is in fact wrong ā¦
ECM Program 4 = Bands H&I
ECM Program 5 = Bands J&KSo, as Fighters are mainly in I or J bands, you would need to use, by default Program 4 and Program 5. Deactivating Program 4 only when you want to get ride of the 30% FCRās detection capability degradation due to jamming on I band (F-16C Radar band).
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Bellow the radars table from 4.37.0 Dash 34
Warning : I supposed it has been removed from the documentation because it may be wrong or incomplete.For instance, for the F-14 radars, reported to be H bands :
- AN/AWG-9 (F-14A) is I bands
- AN/AWG-15 (F-14B & D) is not present in the table
TABLE
Radar System Band Search 1 Band Search 2 Band Search 3 Band Acquire Band Guide TPS-830K I I I J J UV-26 U U U U U Vega-M I I I I I Naval (Type 1) E E E G G Naval (Type 2) I I J H H Naval (Type 3) L L I I I A-4 AGRS J J J J J AN_AGP-66 I I I I I AN_AGP-68V4 I I I I I AN_AGP-68V9 I I I I I AN_APG-63 I I I I I AN_APG-65 I I I I I AN_APG-66V2A I I I I I AN_APG-70 J J J J J AN_APG-71 I I I I I AN_APG-73 I I I I I AN_APG-77 I I I I I AN_APG-78 M M M M M AN_APQ-99 I I I I I AN_APQ-109 I I I I I AN_APQ-120 I I I I I AN_APQ-145 J J J J J AN_APQ-159 I I I I I AN_APY-2 F F F F F AN_AWG-9 I I I I I AN_MPQ-46 D D D I J AN_MPQ-50 C C C C C AN_MPQ-53 G G G G G AN_MPQ-55 I I I J J Antilope_5 I I I I I APS-145 F F F F F Bar_Lock E E E F F Big_Bird E E E E E Chair_Back I I I I I Clam_Pipe J J J J J Crown_Drum J J J J J Cyrano_II I I I I I Cyrano_IVM J J J J J Dog_Ear G G G G G ECR-90_Captor I I I I I F-5_AGRS I I I I I F-14_AGRS I I I I I F-15_AGRS J J J J J F-16_AGRS I I I I I F-18_AGRS I I I I I Fan_Song_E/F G G G G G Fan_Song_F G G G G G Fire_Can E E E E E Fire_Dome H H H H H Flap_Lid I I I J J Flat_Face C C C C C Foxhunter I I I I I Generic E E E G G GMR_TFR I I I I I Gun_Dish J J J J J Hot_Shot E E E E J Kam_Lung_GD-53 I I I I I KLJ-5 I I I I I Kopyo-25 I I I I I KSAM E E E F J Land_Roll H H H J J Long_Track E E E E E Low_Blow I I I I D MAWS I I I I I N011ME_Bars I I I I I N019_Sapfir-29 I I I I I N019M_Topaz I I I I I Nike D D D F I Pat_Hand H H H H H PNA-D_Rubin D D D D D PS_37 I I I I I RBE2 I I I I I RDI I I I I I RDY I I I I I RP-21_Sapfir I I I I I RP-22_Sapfir-21 I I I I I RP-23ML_Sapfir-23 I I I I I RP-25M_Sapfir-25 J J J J J RP-26_Taifun I I I I I RP-31_Zaslon J J J J J SCP-01_Scipio I I I I I Scrum_Half H H H G J Skyguard I I I I I Snap_Shot K K K K K Snow_Drift F F F F F Spoon_Rest A A A A A Square_Pair H H H H H SRD-3_Grad I I I I I SRD-5M_Kvantum I I I I I Straight_Flush G G G H I
Based on that table I started a file to make Threats to ECM Program correspondance in January when 4.37 came out, but I didnāt pursue for the reason I highlighted at the beggining of this very post.
Nevertheless, I share it here ECM Tables.xlsx
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@CheckPoint GO in sim data folderā¦
In radar, you should see text files with info in itā¦
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Thanks
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@MaxWaldorf said in F15 firing an AIM120 C at 43 nautical miles on an F16 with its ECM on:
@CheckPoint GO in sim data folderā¦
In radar, you should see text files with info in itā¦
It was more or less my next step : dig in the docs and editor to find the information.
Thanks for the tip.
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@CheckPoint said
It was more or less my next step : dig in the docs and editor to find the information.
Thanks for the tip.
Few hours later I completed the shared file (ECM Tables.xlsx) with info from the DB (Aircraft to Radar from BMS Editor & Radar to Bands in Falcon BMS 4.37\Data\Sim\Radar).
Main findings, as per in current 4.37.2 KTO DB
- Appart from F-15C and later version which I checked are in J band (Prog 5) ā¦
- ā¦ all the other planes found so far are in I band (Prog 4) ā¦
- ā¦ including the F-14.
Nota : I did not include the MiG-31 ā¦ yet.
EDIT : I just figured out the answer was already there ā¦
@Master-Yoda said in F15 firing an AIM120 C at 43 nautical miles on an F16 with its ECM on:
@Rouge1512 The f-15 is jammed with program 5 not 4. Same with the Mig-31. All other aircraft, program 4
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@CheckPoint Also, i forgot to mention that if you want maximum jamming performance in mode 3, only one program should be active. It was in the changelog for u2 but really a fine print that someone could miss. Did some tests with multiple programs active and the hostile could burnthrough further away as he should so make sure you have the correct program selected. Basically in all campaigns as BLUFOR you use only program 4 and when Ruzzia enters the war, pay attention for mig-31ās and use program 5.
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in the continuity of a BVR fight against F15C, Iād like to pick up one point: I noted a defensive dexterity of the AI pilots rather surprising near the opposing missiles closing in on themā¦as if they had the visual on the missile. In almost cases, they start a downward spiral at less than 2NMā¦which forces the opposing missile to exhaust its kinetic energyā¦Is this realistic to proceed like this in defense?