Unsolved Snowplow HOTAS issue.
-
@drtbkj - I can’t even think of a reason you would want a radar to “snowplow”…maybe for TFR? In which case it should be automatic…or do you mean Ground Map (GM)?
I can’t even find FCR snowplow in the BMS docs…
…ok…I found it. I’d just think of it as something other than “snowplow”:
2.4.9.1.8 SNOWPLOW (SP) SUBMODE (OSB-8)
Depress OSB 8 next to the SP mnemonic to select the snowplow option. The mnemonic highlights indicating that you are in SP mode. SP sighting directs each sensor line-of-sight straight ahead in azimuth; it is not referenced to any steerpoint. In GM, GMT and SEA modes, the cursor will be positioned in the center of the MFD. The cursors remain fixed while the ground map video moves, or “snowplows,” across the MFD.
At this point, there is no sensor of interest (SOI) and the cursors cannot be slewed. TMS up establishes the radar as SOI, ground- stabilizes the cursor and enables cursor slewing with the CURSOR/ENABLE switch. TMS up again with the cursor over a target will command target track. All cursor slews in SP are zeroed when SP is deselected.
After ground stabilizing, the point under the cursors at the time of stabilization effectively becomes your steerpoint. All NAV and weapon delivery steering and symbology, including great circle steering, will be referenced to this “pseudo steerpoint.” Displays return to the previously selected sighting point when SP is deselected.
TMS down will only drop a ground target lock, placing the cursor at the same point it was before a lock attempt was made. SP is deselected any of the following ways:
Depressing OSB 8 adjacent to the SP mnemonic.
Entering any air-to-ground visual submode (CCIP, DTOS, STRAFE, EO-VIS).
Changing steerpoint (only if SP is ground stabilized; pre-designate changes of steerpoint have no effect).
Entering any air-to-air radar mode.
As SP mode is not tied to a steerpoint it is particularly useful where target coordinates are not known in advance; either because specific enemy battalions are on the move, or for finding targets of opportunity. It can also be useful to scan ahead for potential ground threats or terrain obstacles while navigating, especially at low altitude. -
@drtbkj can you clarify? is there a specific callback to enter SP mode?
maybe something leftover from AF days? not sure it still works… still tested
-
You could try the “SimRadarSnowplow” shortcut callback. It’s in the Full keyfile
-
@Stevie I find that snowplow mode works great on tgts of opportunity.
-
@jayb said in Snowplow HOTAS issue.:
You could try the “SimRadarSnowplow” shortcut callback. It’s in the Full keyfile
H, Airtex and jayb, You’re right, and I have SimRadarSnowplow in my BMS-Auto. My first thought was it just a callback that has changed(it happens from time to time) . The weird part is that the hotspot in 'pit works, with that callback. When I look in keymapping in the Launcher it works (both HOTAS and the key command I assigned it). It’s just they neither works in the cockpit.
UPDATE: Snowplow is OSB 8 on the radar page, When I assign my HOTAS to *that * it works. Perhaps SimRadarSnowplow itself has been deactivated? -
@drtbkj looks like this is known bug, broken since 4.36 days
https://forum.falcon-bms.com/post/352307
I can’t imagine it’s a high priority … honestly for stuff like this that doesn’t exist in the real jet, if it’s adding problematic complexity to the codebase they should probably just deprecate it
(no but wait please don’t do that for SimRadarCursorZero! :P)
-
@spotdott - I can see that being the case…for the RL radar(s) I work with that happens automatically for A/G Mapping, and that’ s what threw me - having to select it.
It’s not a “radar mode”, really…just a stabilized Cursor. When I hear “mode” I think of a scan pattern/option.
-
@drtbkj - I sort of figured this would be the case!
-
@airtex2019 said in Snowplow HOTAS issue.:
@drtbkj looks like this is known bug, broken since 4.36 days
https://forum.falcon-bms.com/post/352307
I can’t imagine it’s a high priority … honestly for stuff like this that doesn’t exist in the real jet, if it’s adding problematic complexity to the codebase they should probably just deprecate it
(no but wait please don’t do that for SimRadarCursorZero! :P)
Hi, Airtex. What’s strange is I just noticed this very recently. OTOH, I’ve gone a little more “Hornet” in using the MFD’s, so maybe I just didn’t notice. As for Cursor zero, at least it would be an easy fix. Just assign you HOTAS button to that NFD’s OSB9.
Yeah, Stevie , I concur. I think what threw me for a bit was that it was working in 'pit -
@drtbkj
Hi mate,
Unfortunately yes, callback for SP “shortcut” is bugged (OR! intentionally disabled) since, as @airtex2019 said.
I’ve also reported it for 4.37.0 , heck, is low pri , so., just use radar MFD button on the right side, that works fine.One other caveat, I had some troubles with placing Markpoints for GM when in SP mode… you’ll see.
Cheers
-
@white_fang yep SP has always seemed buggy (or very quirky and awkward) to me
- hitting the SP button takes SOI away from the FCR, which seems unexpected
- you can’t simply toggle SOI back to FCR… DMS-down seems to make SOI on the other MFD toggle on/off
- with seemingly neither sensor as SOI, hitting TGP-up makes it SOI, and the cursor begins tracking that spot on the ground – which looks and feels like normal GM mode tracking SPI… ie. you can slew the cursor to adjust SPI
- but hitting ICP7 to attempt to generate markpoint, kicks you out of SP mode
- in order to create a markpoint from SP mode, you actually have to hard-lock a target on the ground first
I cannot say if the real jet avionics are this quirky and awkward, or if it’s long standing BMS bug… but I find myself actively avoiding SP mode. When I want to acquire a target of oppty… I prefer to use HUD to create a markpoint somewhere in nearby vicinity, then scan around there using normal GM/GMT mode, and refine the mkpt further as needed.
-
@airtex2019
Why buggy?
Real jet:
Snowplow cannot be SOI.
First TMS up ground stabilizes, second designate target. After the first, one can move around.One will be kicked out of SP under several conditions…one of them is HUD MARK.
-
@Stevie snowplow is a submode of the APG-68, yes.
Why you guys would like to have a shortcut for SP? You mean if you press the shortcut it would reconfigure completely the FCC etc?! That is simply not real…
SP should be only accessable when you can see it “SP” on the MFD, then you can simply click on the OSB, you dont need a shortcut. Or are there any other use for cockpit builders, for example? -
@tiag said in Snowplow HOTAS issue.:
Why buggy?
Like I said, I have no knowledge to say if the real jet’s SP submode is this quirky and difficult to use. I haven’t even tried other sims to see how they compare…
For something that seems tailor suited for acquiring targets of opportunity, it’s surprisingly awkward and difficult. Getting kicked out of SP submode when trying to make a markpoint, in the same manner one would in ordinary GM mode, is severely impactful and disorienting in the heat of battle. Is this behavior actually documented (RL jet)?
-
SP mode behavior was improved/worked-on by my at the days I was doing avionics mostly (i.e 4.33 development). Maybe since then things changed a bit, not sure as I hardly follow this code, but you should know that in general SP mode behavior is pretty vague even in the official docs and not everything is clear , but trust me, what we have is accurate enough.
SP shortcut - I don’t remember any on the real HOTAS
Potential bugs and problems - Maybe but if there are I’m sure we will fix them at some point in the future. -
@I-Hawk sure, nothing is perfect – only progressing in that direction.
My list of questions and doubts about AG radar is broader than SP submode … like, why does FTT lock black out the screen, leaving only crosshairs? is that real? how can one possibly know what you’ve locked onto? esp in zoomed/dbs2 view, which is typical, the crosshairs are always in the middle of the display by definition.
(I typically find myself having to define a markpoint then unlock, cursor-zero etc… just to reorient and verify I locked what I intended to lock. )
Similarly, Freeze submode seems broken or not fully impl’d… eg. I can’t lock a target while in FZ submode… is that real? what is the point of FZ, if not to stabilize the display and carefully select a target?
None of these things are recent regressions … it’s been this way since I can remember (~2018) just things that have always seemed fundamentally strange to me. I’d be curious to learn what the real GM/T radar interface is like, in a block 50. I’m sure it’s not super user friendly, by today’s standards… but some of this UX seems pointlessly dangerous, awkward and error-prone.
-
@airtex2019 I think of SP as a way to disconnect from the steerpoint regime that SOIs are otherwise governed by. You fly along in SP and to be able to slew you need to do one TMS-Up, this can be thought of as setting a steerpoint-of-opportunity. Then you can slew based off of that. Having to do one TMS-Up before everything works as usual is just the cost of having that flexibility
FZ mode means that the picture is not updated anymore, like a still photo. It allows for extra perusing of the sensor image but you can’t lock anything up since it by definition is outdated
-
@airtex2019 I’m no expert but I think:
FTT - Makes sense - Like with AA STT mode, while in FTT the radar cannot map anything else (Including terrain, blips etc) because it is focusing all of the energy at the target point. There is really no way to tell what exactly you have locked. I think that’s why TGP is so popularFZ - I think FZ mode will need some work.
There could be some other things that require fixing/working on, as we will anyway need a rewrite on the A-G radar for NT, I guess there will also be some other improvements.
-
@I-Hawk said in Snowplow HOTAS issue.:
FTT - Makes sense - Like with AA STT mode, while in FTT the radar cannot map anything else (Including terrain, blips etc) because it is focusing all of the energy at the target point. There is really no way to tell what exactly you have locked.
I get that it’s not sweeping anymore, so can’t update the background image. I suppose what I’d expect, is that FTT would look a bit like FZ submode… the background image would freeze* and you’d get a small diamond with crosshairs rendered over the spot (range + azimuth) the radar is focused.
(*in zoomed views… in ‘norm’ fov, the image and crosshairs would need to move as you fly forward and/or turn)
Oh well, I’m just making stuff up and have no basis of authority to say what it looks like, other than wondering “why would it be this way in RL, it makes no sense”.
-
Good Day, All. What SP does in game is-Once selected and TMS Up to make it SOI, it focus’ on a point directly ahead. in other words, if you turn left while in SP, the cursor moves to the right. From what little info I’ve found on the RL mode, that seems realistic. It works well if you are patrolling a Kill Box, for example, in conjunction with a TGP.
As for BMS, SP is working exactly as before, if you use OSB-8 . Also, the “workaround” of setting that call back on a HOTAS button works fine, too. So, the issue was purely the SnowPlow callback itself, which has gotten borked/deactivated/whatever somehow.