Unsolved Cockpit buttons Missing AV-8B
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IMO, the single most suitable jet for a full-up, hifi, inclusion to BMS would be the Harrier - because there is so much info out there about it, and most of the callback needed are already in BMS and/or could be re-purposed for the Harrier pit within existing code.
Personally, I’d like to see a Night Attack one…but a Radar one isn’t out of the question. Lots of work, but not near as much as trying to do an Eagle.
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@Hellpluss said in Cockpit buttons Missing AV-8B:
Is this a bug or have i missed something.
Nope. It’s not a bug, just N/I. But here’s what can you do, it is my workaround but it works, you can try if you like it.
- check all missing commands and assign keys to direct functions - not! toggle functions ,…
- eg . JFS1 = ctl shf j , JFS2 = alt shf j , JFS_OFF = shf j … etc. for all missing switches
- only, that way you’ll need to remember or print key - list
- no worries, after 10 ramp starts it will already get into memory
- as plus, keys will work in any pit
Cheers
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@Stevie said in Cockpit buttons Missing AV-8B:
IMO, the single most suitable jet for a full-up, hifi, inclusion to BMS would be the Harrier - because there is so much info out there about it, and most of the callback needed are already in BMS and/or could be re-purposed for the Harrier pit within existing code.
I would love to see some work done on the Harrier but understand the workload the Devs already have today, so I’m not complaining at all. I’ve mapped pretty much all I need to my Warthog to fly comfortably in both AV-8B and AV-8B+. Perfect aircraft for TASMO missions imo but a little under-powered for A-A combat. I have a list of bugs that could be “fixed” or improved including glitches on the WASP but unless someone intends to work on them, it seems a little pointless to post them.
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@Kavelenko - now that you mention the WH, I’m left wondering if you can’t use one of the throttles as a Nozzle lever…that would be a “work around”.
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@Stevie said in Cockpit buttons Missing AV-8B:
now that you mention the WH, I’m left wondering if you can’t use one of the throttles as a Nozzle lever…that would be a “work around”.
It would be ideal if someone could create an axis for the nozzle lever, I would then map that to my friction lever as I do in DCS. AFAIK nozzle control is solely via keyboard short cuts or mapping them to switches on the HOTAS.
On my WH, I mapped the nozzles to my Mic switch using the pinky as a shift modifier, so pinky shift + Mic Up gives me VTOL Exhaust Inc, & pinky switch + Mic Down gives me VTOL Exhaust Dec.
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@Kavelenko - actually, I’ve seen a few really good 3D printed Harrier throttle quadrants both here and around the web…just have to search them out. And have a 3D printer.
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@Kavelenko Yes they are just inc/dec callbacks, currently.
I remember being curious – in the RL jet is it a fine-grained (analog) axis – or is it coarse-grained / notched, the way it’s modeled it with the callbacks?
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@Stevie said in Cockpit buttons Missing AV-8B:
@Kavelenko - now that you mention the WH, I’m left wondering if you can’t use one of the throttles as a Nozzle lever…that would be a “work around”.
K, here are some things I do for Harrier HOTAS
- Map the nozzle position callbacks as unshifted functions on the trim hat.
- Map the “Alt Flaps EXTEND” and “NORM” as shifted functions. This emulates the STOL and CRUISE flight modes switch. If memory serves control+3 gives you a flap display that shows Alt Flap status.
- Using Voice Attack, create a "STO Button " command, mapped to a HOTAS button. This command just moves the nozzles 5 positions to 50% for take offs.
BTW, the BMS Naval Ops Manual has some good stuff on the Harrier.
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@airtex2019 - in the RL jet the Nozzle lever has a Stop that can be set in increments - 5 or 10 degrees, as I recall. For takeoff the STO Stop is set based on GWT and temperature of the day to perform a Short Takeoff as required.
For landing the STO Stop is stowed clear of the Nozzle Lever. It’s also possible to lift/pull the Nozzle lever over the Stop to override it. With the Stop clear of the Lever the Nozzles can be set/positioned continually for VIFFing…though tactically that’s really not as useful as one would think.
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@drtbkj - A Harrier should have three Flap switch positions:
- UP/AUTO
- CRUISE
- STOL
As I recall, CRUISE Flaps actually reflex a bit - i.e.; trailing edge slightly elevated.
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@drtbkj said in Cockpit buttons Missing AV-8B:
K, here are some things I do for Harrier HOTAS
- Map the nozzle position callbacks as unshifted functions on the trim hat.
Not an option for me because I have Trim Reset, Wing Fold Up, Wing Fold Down, & Trim F-18 T/O for un-shifted trim call backs but not only that, I found that a little awkward for precise nozzle control.
- Map the “Alt Flaps EXTEND” and “NORM” as shifted functions. This emulates the STOL and CRUISE flight modes switch. If memory serves control+3 gives you a flap display that shows Alt Flap status.
Already doing that and I agree its very handy for STOL flaps control.
- Using Voice Attack, create a "STO Button " command, mapped to a HOTAS button. This command just moves the nozzles 5 positions to 50% for take offs.
Yes, already doing that too.
Anyone had any ideas around creating an axis for the nozzle lever, maybe using TARGET software perhaps? I would gladly sacrifice my radar antenna axis for a nozzle control axis.
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@Stevie said in Cockpit buttons Missing AV-8B:
@airtex2019 - in the RL jet the Nozzle lever has a Stop that can be set in increments - 5 or 10 degrees, as I recall. For takeoff the STO Stop is set based on GWT and temperature of the day to perform a Short Takeoff as required.
For landing the STO Stop is stowed clear of the Nozzle Lever. It’s also possible to lift/pull the Nozzle lever over the Stop to override it. With the Stop clear of the Lever the Nozzles can be set/positioned continually for VIFFing…though tactically that’s really not as useful as one would think.
@Stevie said in Cockpit buttons Missing AV-8B:
@drtbkj - A Harrier should have three Flap switch positions:
- UP/AUTO
- CRUISE
- STOL
As I recall, CRUISE Flaps actually reflex a bit - i.e.; trailing edge slightly elevated.
All, true, Stevie. In BMS , however, there is no STO Stop or UP/AUTO modeled . You’re also right about STO and GWT.
GWT is a big factor in STO’s . What I had found , with GWT at 22-24K, was to set the nozzles at 10 deg down on the takeoff roll , and using the STO Stop to bump it to 50 at the ramp. Then gradually decrease to zero, then go to CRUISE. I’m curious if others have found something better. -
@Kavelenko said in Cockpit buttons Missing AV-8B:
@drtbkj said in Cockpit buttons Missing AV-8B:
K, here are some things I do for Harrier HOTAS
- Map the nozzle position callbacks as unshifted functions on the trim hat.
Not an option for me because I have Trim Reset, Wing Fold Up, Wing Fold Down, & Trim F-18 T/O for un-shifted trim call backs but not only that, I found that a little awkward for precise nozzle control.
I got to thinking, after I read this, what about using Voice Attack for nozzle control in cases you don’t have sufficient HOTAS buttons? As in, “Nozz zero” through “Nozz 90” commands
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@drtbkj Yes this can easily be done, but there’s nothing worse when Voice Attack doesn’t recognize your voice command, and you’re yelling into your microphone as you hit the water lol.
Good idea to map them to a keyboard press or HOTAS button imo.
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@Kavelenko said in Cockpit buttons Missing AV-8B:
@drtbkj Yes this can easily be done, but there’s nothing worse when Voice Attack doesn’t recognize your voice command, and you’re yelling into your microphone as you hit the water lol.
Good idea to map them to a keyboard press or HOTAS button imo.
LMAO, and as someone who has to map such as “Hornet Bowl” for the Ball call , I’m with you.
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@drtbkj - yes, and it doesn’t really have to be modeled in BMS…it’s up to your controller, really…as it’s a physical Stop similar to the Throttle Rail in the Viper.
I’ve seen some really good 3D printed Harrier throttle quadrants both here and around the web…and that’s really what is needed, a decent controller.Not having a good set of Harrier controllers is what keeps most people from operating the current model like a RL Harrier, really. A RL pilot would slam the Nozzles to the STO Stop once getting to Nozzle Rotation speed (which is also a performance calc, and another HUD cue not included in BMS - a Harrier actually has four Master Modes - NAV, A/A, A/G, and VSTOL) and then select UP/AUTO Flaps after establishing climb. The only time he would set CRUISE Flaps is during cross country or long range ferry - not during combat ops. So STO for takeoff/landing, UP/AUTO for combat. CRUISE reduces induced drag by limiting lift, which optimizes max Range and Endurance.
Honestly, there really isn’t any “standard” Nozzle setting for VSTOL ops - the setting required is determined by a set of tables/graphs in the NATOPS pubs (and runway available). Temperature of the day and GWT are HUGE factors for VSTOL ops - you will be either Fan Speed or Temp limited depending on ambient air temp…if you are Temp limited burning water can help. And you only have about 1 min worth of water to burn on a full tank of H2O.
I can tell that there are a LOT of things in error in the BMS Harrier model just from what I read/see in posts…Hover Performance being one of the worst examples. But nothing that doesn’t seem easily fixable, if the effort would be put forth to fix it.
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I would like to say something about what concerns my part of the work (3dpit), but not about the rest …it’s not just a matter of effort. In order to work on this 3dpit again I would have to reinstall windows 7 32bit and use "2009 to be able to edit correctly all my errors (3dbuttons, movement, switches… etc). Simply importing the model in 3ds format would not help me much, I would still have to redo all the cockpit functionality, and it would be a complicated job, given also the changes that were made regarding the avionics of the F16 (which I had to use with the harrier 3dpit). I’m now working on Win10 64bit and "2014 to correct the errors in the F15C 3dpit… but in view of BMS 4.38 I will necessarily have to switch to "2021/23 (or Blender), and work with Susbtance Painter… a complete new way to work. I thank the BMS community for flying the Harrier, and whoever implemented the fixes on my old work (I was not quite at TOP). I hope you can solve the Harrier’s problems somehow. If you want I can give you the model in 3ds format
maybe it would be better to wait 4.38…