Questions about bullseye IRL
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It is my understanding that bullseye is some common known pre-defined point decided before mission. However in DED you can change it. It is possible to change in RL? I think so since you have this page. But how does AWACS behave once you change it? At this point, it leads to question whether actually bullseye is something package or flight related rather than theater related.
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@williang83 said in Questions about bullseye:
It is my understanding that bullseye is some common known pre-defined point decided before mission. However in DED you can change it. It is possible to change in RL? I think so since you have this page. But how does AWACS behave once you change it? At this point, it leads to question whether actually bullseye is something package or flight related rather than theater related.
Hi. You are correct in you understanding, and I think you can set it in the jet. However, I think that’s just in case you don’t have the data in you DTC. I’ve never tried in BMS. So, I don’t know what AWACS would do even if you could get the data to it, and still the comms menu doesn’t have an option to do that anyway, so…
In RL I think you are given Bullseye, not setting it. -
@williang83 said in Questions about bullseye IRL:
It is possible to change in RL? I think so since you have this page.
I believe it does and must change in RL ops so that the enemy cannot “listen in” and learn of enemy positions.
But how does AWACS behave once you change it? At this point, it leads to question whether actually bullseye is something package or flight related rather than theater related.
AWACS behaviour in the sim? Or IRL? IRL, it should just be the same, you’re just going to be at a different bullseye location once the actual bullseye changes, even if your own position hasn’t changed. Since bullseye calls are transmitted over a frequency shared by many, many flights and packages, it is theatre/date or even time related.
Maybe the reason you can change in DED is for example is the bullseye changes at 00:00 hours and you do a night flight, take off at 23:45, you can change your bullseye 15 minutes into the flight.
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@drtbkj said in Questions about bullseye IRL:
@williang83 said in Questions about bullseye:
It is my understanding that bullseye is some common known pre-defined point decided before mission. However in DED you can change it. It is possible to change in RL? I think so since you have this page. But how does AWACS behave once you change it? At this point, it leads to question whether actually bullseye is something package or flight related rather than theater related.
Hi. You are correct in you understanding, and I think you can set it in the jet. However, I think that’s just in case you don’t have the data in you DTC. I’ve never tried in BMS. So, I don’t know what AWACS would do even if you could get the data to it, and still the comms menu doesn’t have an option to do that anyway, so…
In RL I think you are given Bullseye, not setting it.In RL you may be given a set of bullseye(s) that rotate on a coordinated timeline…or more probable, one for each kill box in the area which you may be assigned to or enter. So yes - you need to be able to change them as/when required. And can…in RL.
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Hi @Stevie,
If the Bullseye is given on the basis of kill boxes, how can an Awacs coordinate different flights with different target areas and missions?
If the timeline makes sens for all missions in flight when the bullseye is updated, the kill box seems tricky to manage, no ?
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@ericfa2a said in Questions about bullseye IRL:
Hi @Stevie,
If the Bullseye is given on the basis of kill boxes, how can an Awacs coordinate different flights with different target areas and missions?
If the timeline makes sens for all missions in flight when the bullseye is updated, the kill box seems tricky to manage, no ?
RL AWACS has more than just one operator so no it wouldn’t conflict
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@oakdesign Thank you .
Just to know, but each operator in a awacs has its own bullseye coordinates and operation aera or it’s more based on a package basis ?
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@Stevie said in Questions about bullseye IRL:
@drtbkj said in Questions about bullseye IRL:
@williang83 said in Questions about bullseye:
It is my understanding that bullseye is some common known pre-defined point decided before mission. However in DED you can change it. It is possible to change in RL? I think so since you have this page. But how does AWACS behave once you change it? At this point, it leads to question whether actually bullseye is something package or flight related rather than theater related.
Hi. You are correct in you understanding, and I think you can set it in the jet. However, I think that’s just in case you don’t have the data in you DTC. I’ve never tried in BMS. So, I don’t know what AWACS would do even if you could get the data to it, and still the comms menu doesn’t have an option to do that anyway, so…
In RL I think you are given Bullseye, not setting it.In RL you may be given a set of bullseye(s) that rotate on a coordinated timeline…or more probable, one for each kill box in the area which you may be assigned to or enter. So yes - you need to be able to change them as/when required. And can…in RL.
True, Stevie. But if I’m understanding @williang83 correctly, he’s asking about you arbitrarily changing BP, and getting AWACS to listen.
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Yeah basically my doubts are more RL related., whether or not there was some sort of freedom when it comes to bullseye, but since the beginning the logic was pointing to the direction that in RL you have a bullseye set for you, hence you cannot simply change it because it makes your CAP or whatever life easier for you. If this wasn’t the case my question would be how do AWACS adapt to this, would they provide customized BRA indications? That would be insane for the operator, hence why i wanted to clarify. Just a pure matter of curiosity.
Let’s say that this ability to change it in BMS not only in TE but also on the fly via DED to one of your STPT. That made me believe that this was mostly something QoL gaming related rather than mimic RL. I just wanted to clear this doubt out. Of course in game it is easy to instantly compute BRA according to the whoever is hearing the message, which would of course not be feasible for human AWACS in MP games.
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@williang83 said in Questions about bullseye IRL:
It is my understanding that bullseye is some common known pre-defined point decided before mission. However in DED you can change it. It is possible to change in RL? I think so since you have this page. But how does AWACS behave once you change it? At this point, it leads to question whether actually bullseye is something package or flight related rather than theater related.
Answer is simple …
If your DTC transfer is failing, or no time to program it before stepping to the plane, or in case of multiple BE … etc … you will program it live in the jet using the coordinate from the comm-plan / datacard. -
@ericfa2a said in Questions about bullseye IRL:
Hi @Stevie,
If the Bullseye is given on the basis of kill boxes, how can an Awacs coordinate different flights with different target areas and missions?
If the timeline makes sens for all missions in flight when the bullseye is updated, the kill box seems tricky to manage, no ?
EXTREMELY tricky…and coordinated - including which kill boxes an AWACS crew has operational responsibility/authority for. So when the crew checks in, everyone knows. Tactical ATC - including air surveillance - in a combat theater is just as much a coordinated “ballet” as operations on a CV deck.
What we generally see in BMS is seriously watered down in this respect…I’ve known a few such operators and AICs over the years and what they deal with is simply eye-watering.
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@Dee-Jay said in Questions about bullseye IRL:
@williang83 said in Questions about bullseye IRL:
It is my understanding that bullseye is some common known pre-defined point decided before mission. However in DED you can change it. It is possible to change in RL? I think so since you have this page. But how does AWACS behave once you change it? At this point, it leads to question whether actually bullseye is something package or flight related rather than theater related.
Answer is simple …
If your DTC transfer is failing, or no time to program it before stepping to the plane, or in case of multiple BE … etc … you will program it live in the jet using the coordinate from the comm-plan / datacard.This is also a case where depending on the mission some platforms/operations may also carry several DTCs into the air - depending on how long/complex the mission is, how big the operating area is, and how much information their particular DTC will hold.
I know that for the systems/platforms I’ve worked with over the years I’ve seen the carts grow to be able to hold more info…and even so, a pilot may still carry multiple DTC cards.
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@drtbkj said in Questions about bullseye IRL:
True, Stevie. But if I’m understanding @williang83 correctly, he’s asking about you arbitrarily changing BP, and getting AWACS to listen.
…it’s not really a case of “getting AWACS to listen” as it is a matter of AWACS having been briefed - which they will have been. There is also operational protocol as to when AWACS (and elements within the flight) will stop referencing BE and switch to using BRA.
And to further complicate things, there may also be briefed ground reference points - usually in regard to CAS operations - which may also be considered “BEs” of their own…which I’d think AWACS would know (or care) nothing about, but the inbound Section or Division would utilize wrt troops in contact.
If this all sounds complex, yeah…it is.