How hard would it be?
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@VIPER-0 @greenman
Just my personal thoughts:Of course, the official BMS team will never include the F-35 like they are doing now with the F-15.
But it could be a continuation of the OFM 5th gen fighters. There must many things be guesstimated and you will not achieve the symbology shown in the video above (let alone this look-through-the-bottom feature or a MWS).
It is more a project like the Eurofighter or Harrier.And last but not least: Who knows what Microprose is planning to come up with in Falcon 5. It concentrates on the F-35…
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As long as you just want to fly around and land with a cockpit that looks real and does no military or combat stuff, I guess you could spend tons of hours making one. But you can get that eunuch at MSFS already. Otherwise you are asking for either a lame arcade style F-35 in BMS or a prison sentence. I can see why no one is jumping to do it.
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@Icarus yea guess so, probably should close the thread. I’ll probably look into the f-35 that they have at x-plane. sorry for the stupid topic. Stay safe!
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@greenman said in How hard would it be?:
@MaxWaldorf I mean how hard would it be?there are tons of f35 cockpit videos online. And with the classified stuff I don’t think that the f16 that we have is all accurate.
Do you think that you have seen every possible “pages”? Compared to any existing F-16C / AM version in BMS4 anything what would be created to the F-35 by “tons of f35 cockpit videos online” would be laughably inaccurate. There is a VERY large gap between having an overview about the difference between an F-35 and F-16’s MDF, modeling them on a usable level is another. First of all JSF has some kind of “touchscreen” while the F-16 has PHYSICAL buttons.
I simply don’t understand why so people can’t let go of their obsession with the F-35 and other advanced planes and come up with very “interesting” ideas about what and how they should be modeled.
They cannot be modeled because of exact sources not mentioning the tons of subsystems of the plane itself.
- AESA radar?
- DAS?
- EOTS which function because of system integration on a totally different level to Sniper TGP.
- Towed decoy?
Even just modeling the AESA radar would be an insanely complicated thing.
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@MaxWaldorf said in How hard would it be?:
Sure, you go to prison… Not me
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@greenman said in How hard would it be?:
@VIPER-0 i guess the “tons” were a bit exagerated but i did find a video of a lockmart f-35 simulator ( I heard it is very acurate).
but if making one is impossible how in the world did they get one in msfs or in prepar3d? and would it be possible to use msfs or prepar3d as a referance guide?
Whether we ever model the F-35 or not, that single video of the F-35 cockpit demo was amazing, and a touch-screen to boot. I can’t imagine the coding that would be required to emulate that cockpit display in a flight sim.
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@SoBad
As someone who worked with and trained soldiers on military simulators (not AF but that doesn’t matter for the fact).
We had as well promotional videos of the simulator manufacturer, by no way was anything shown on displays even close to what it would in real use. They had to create static “fake” pictures to be displayed on for example a BMS (BattlefieldManagementSystem) in oder to be allowed to publish their promotion video. -
@oakdesign said in How hard would it be?:
@SoBad
As someone who worked with and trained soldiers on military simulators (not AF but that doesn’t matter for the fact).
We had as well promotional videos of the simulator manufacturer, by no way was anything shown on displays even close to what it would in real use. They had to create static “fake” pictures to be displayed on for example a BMS (BattlefieldManagementSystem) in oder to be allowed to publish their promotion video.I get that, OakDesign, but the display concepts of customizations, inter-organizational options, etc., and the intuitive methodology of implementing these features, all in a touch screen display, are way ahead of the F-16, for example.
They may have publicized version 1 of their cockpit display while they are currently using, say, version 5, but I’m just very impressed, if I may.
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Actually, the implementation of a large draw canvas and to track where the mouse click is from code side not really complicated to implement.
However, a F-35 cockpit is not feasible due to the lack of proper information in public domain. And that would lead automatically to a very inaccurate modelling which is, at least for me, not really interesting.From my POV, there are other dozens of amazing airframes from the 80s-2010s that would bring lot of joy to our campaigns, and public domain info is largely available. As already announced, we have a couple of other cockpits in the works, but the community is loosing a BIG chance to embark in this adventure.
No coder will start coding a new pit if the pit is not ready, so, first comes the pit, then comes the code. That was the case for our Eagle, and that is the case for the other platforms in dev.
Also already told @drtbkj and his Mafia, that they should try to make pits, many pits, in high quality. THAT would be a great contribution and would push us forward even faster. -
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Agreed on what tiag said, could I get someone to model a c130 cockpit, maybe an An2 cockpit will do too
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@greenman there is a good approximation on the f35 in VTOL VR however putting a stealth in this sim will turn it into an easy ride SEAD/DEAD/A2A will become so easy it wont be worth playing… and when (and if ) it comes to TVT all the low skilled pilots will elect to fly the f35s it will just be a stealth V stealth sim and they would eat up the non stealth aircraft like flies and would strut about as if they are aces because of easy kills and good mission results
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@HaggisHero Yeah, agreed. While still definitely a “lite” sim, the best 5th Gen “experience” is VTOL VR, but part of the smart move of that is removing the actual aircraft type and making it fictional so it doesn’t have to be tied to an actual aircraft’s avonics. You definitely couldn’t manage an F-35’s classified me us by playing it, but you get the idea of what that feels like, even if it’s arcadey overall. 5th Gen does have a lot of easy button type stuff so at least I side the jet, it might just be that easy in RL. I still remember the first F-35 cockpit pic I saw and was sure it was a mock up because it didn’t have enough side panel switches, but it really is that simple.
BMS has plenty of other stuff to offer doing far less classified stuff with the challenge of the more complicated avonics and now interesting historical time frames. 5th Gen available info doesn’t meet the philosophy nor in a way capabilities (yet) of BMS.
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@repvez said in How hard would it be?:
It is always painful to see the "model something in a HC sim what we do not know and no exact public data is available " like comments when ppl. do not realize the depth of their wishes.
- Even the '70s and '80s IRSTs are not modeled the game and the late
- '90s towed decoy
- or 70s PESA radar (MiG-31 + S-300P and PATRIOT.)
Then comes somebody who wish to model a plane based on YT cockpit video which has AESA, DAS, integrated EOTS and towed decoy, the most advanced HMD in the world and such kind of sensor fusion which was unimaginable before.
So not even more primitive subsystems can’t be modeled but hey, it is very wise to start all of them? Even if it could be doable what would be the point? Flying with such F-35 would be like cheating. You are stealth and you would have similar SA than having labels on AND seeing all the contacts on the HSD or whatever is called in the F-35.
I simply do not understand the ppl. As older a plane and as closer to the original scope of the F4.0 it makes more easier to model. Can you guess why the F-15C was the selected plane? Hm…?
Yes, oh no…
This rhymes with LOLAnd it is also f*cking annoying that your only performance here and every other place such “comments” like this. If ppl. wish to understand what is reasonable or not it would be great to listen to the ppl. who understand the technical background of these requests.
Putting F-35 (any version) in the sim beyond a 3D model is close to being pointless. It simply cannot be modeled and if it was it would not be fun from gameplay perspective. Nor the 3D nor the 2D could handle them. In fact the 2D/3D has issues even with double digit AD SAMs… Or with such plane like A-10 which is insanely OP in 2D world and impotent in 3D world.
If anybody wish to make a real work on it, fine, nobody can stop it. But when comes the “based on what” question what would be the right answer beyond the “just because”?
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@molnibalage
No need to have hard feelings about “The People”.I think everyone understands that BMS is a pure F-16 sim and only this aircraft will be modelled as real as it gets. The BMS should not even think about the Battle Penguin.
The F-35 could be a project besides all the MiGs, Su’s, Tornado, Harrier, Eurofighter for OFM. Didn’t I read somewhere that one purpose of the F-15 is to give modders tools for individualised avionic graphics?
And for the “cheat” thing: I would simply use them strategically in a very hard campaign to turn the tide (against Su-57, J-20, UMFs and Clint-Eastwood MiG-31s )… -
Hot take:
J-20 shouldn’t be in, either.
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@S3NTRY said in How hard would it be?:
J-20 shouldn’t be in, either.
That’s not really the point here, since J-20 is thought for AI usage. And I think people love to see modern aircraft in a modern aircraft sim.
Thinking the other way: In my opinion, it wouldn’t be all too interesting to have fully fleshed out i.e. F-4 from Vietnam times or old F-16A. BMS should concentrate on present times as real as it can be done (the aim of every modern flight sim).
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@Atze-0 Well, I have a dissenting opinion (which, as we all know, everyone has and they all stink ) - I’d say that F-16A in a properly populated campaign would be a blast, and that BMS should cap out in early 2000s.
Since there are a million opinions out there, the only option is to have the devs do whatever the hell they’re planning to. We can’t all get our dream scenario :).
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@dumba Yes, the A would be a nice-to-have airframe.
But for now, I’m really looking forward to the new terrain and Link-16.
For my personal opinion, the devs could then think of things like MWS, AESA and in one or two Falcon decades of Block 70 in the very long term instead of concentrating on a F-16A or F-15E after the C.
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@dumba said in How hard would it be?:
@Atze-0 Well, I have a dissenting opinion (which, as we all know, everyone has and they all stink ) - I’d say that F-16A in a properly populated campaign would be a blast, and that BMS should cap out in early 2000s.
Since there are a million opinions out there, the only option is to have the devs do whatever the hell they’re planning to. We can’t all get our dream scenario :).
If the devs could code users’ situational awareness instead of additional toys to replace it… But nothing will replace the users’ interest for their own skill developpement. Skill to use the toy (not competing with) skill to do without it, to each his pleasure.
I wonder if IL2 users want a F35, that wouldn’t surprise me way beyond. Or better even, confront the whole Flying Circus single-handedly in your F35. I think I’ve seen seen something like it in shoot-them-up, long before today’s hardcore sims like Ace Combat.