F-14D Cockpit
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yw mate
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The current F-14A Falcon is far away from accurate.
BTW, there is no way to ādisableā the AoA limiter in BMS, so I do not understand what has been said previously.With 4 AIM-7 & 4 AIM-9, and a GW of 53,873lbs, a F-14A can reach M1.26 at 5,000ft (766 Kts CAS) and its Design limit is M1.4 (850Kts CAS)
For this configuration, the projected structural limit load factor was 7.5G, but tha actual operational one has been reduced to 6.
Under same configuration, the maximum sustained turn rate is 15.25 d/s @ M0.5/305 Kts IAS.
For comparison,- a F-4E Blk50 with slats, with 4xAIM-7 and 50% internal fuel, aka GW=41407lbs had a maximum sustained turn rate of 13.3 d/s (-2) reached at 500Kts IAS, and can sustain only 11.5d/s at 305 IAS
- a Mig-21bis (iz75A) with 2R-60 and 50% internal fuel (GW=16,318lbs) can sustain 10.5 d/s at M0.5/305Kts and 12.1@ 450Kts)
- a F-16 Blk52 with 2AIM-9 and 2xAIM-120 at a GW of 25,000lbs can sustain 16.9 d/s at 342Kts (maximum) and 15.7 at 305Kts.
At 15,000ft, Under same condition, the F-14A can sustain (maximum) 11.5 d/s at M0.65 (330Kts), the F-16Blk52 sustain 12.3 d/s @ 465Kts (and 11.5 at M0.65/330Kts)
So, yes ,the F-14A had better turn rate (max and at low speed) than F-4, Mig-21ā¦, but is clearly bellow the F-16Blk52 at 5,000ft (quite all speed), and at 15,000ft is equivalent at medium/low speed, and bellow at higher speed).
FYI, the current F-14A BMS FM give sustain turn rate higher than the Blk52 at quite any speed, so is clearly over modeled in this area.
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he real cat is much more maneuverable than this
I have to say a big noā¦
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@Heydar,
Iāll be your friend has some very interesting stories to tell! There was a post a while back that had a video of Iranās F-14s fighting against Iraq. It was very interesting to me because, looking at the F-14 from a U.S. perspective it doesnāt really have much of a fighting record. But it never occurred to me to consider that Iran has done a ton of fighting with their Tomcats. A very U.S.-centric view, I know. The video really opened my eyes.Thanks for sharing your friendās experience with us.
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I have to say a big noā¦
I donāt know what do you mean.
But truth is Tomcat is much more poor in history than anyone could imagine.
All of you guys talking about open source which are General.
I am talking about a F-14 pilot Experiences . physician calculate & ā¦ but at the end pilot have to risk his life & prove the case(subject) .
his record is more ā¦ than you could even imagine .
He was originally F-5E pilot when diverted to F-14 . he said with all love an a little Bias I have to F-5E but I have to declare that F-5E is nothing to F-14 . exactly nothing. and will be defeated veeeeeeeeeeerrrrrrrryyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy easily by F-14 pilot if he has experience . I saw a video in you tube which F-14 student challenge their instructures in F-16 ( 100% you see too) , 1st master defeat first student due to his lack of experience but the second instructure was trapped in student talent and ask flight lead to come and help him & he(flight lead) finally knock out student and rescue the other master, but remember me one thing, 1st important thing is Experience . if you are in F-22 but simple student & a master in F-86, master will knock you as easy as drinking glass of water. I know itās exaggerated sentence but really important .Iranian F-14 pilot have records that USN tomcat pilot must have them in dreams . Unlike to west try to show that Iranian F-14 was not operational during Iran-Iraq war but truth is miracle which made by F-14 . which their documents are recorded.you can ask navy F-14 pilot about iraqi pilot react during Persian gulf war when they realize a US F-14 is patrolling in area 10000% they hear āef arba ashar , ta ajjal ta ajjal alfarar (mean= F-14 hurry hurry scape)ā as our pilot hear that many time .
Dear topolo & Mike Metcalf , whould you say more clear & simple,
I didnāt get what you mean , maybe because of my weakness in English , I was going to English class about 10 years ago & quit class before finishing course . I didnāt get what you mean. I have to go for study have no more time , but i try to come and read and answer when I had time.dear toonces, which movie?!!!
could you share it? did you mean video published by IRIAF & press TV & itās name was tomcat fights or some thing like this!!! if not would you share it?
thanx , Heydar -
Iranian F-14 pilot have records that USN tomcat pilot must have them in dreams.
Very absolute theory that can not be based to real facts.
Do you have any access to the U.S. Navy in order to compare the skills of their F-14 pilots?
Iām not trying to offend you, noway my friend.
I just express my opinion, that is we can not have a comparison for these matters due to lack or real and secret evidences.
Just think of it ;).
Nikos. -
I donāt know what do you mean.
F-14 is not under, rather over modeled in Falconā¦
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Very absolute theory that can not be based to real facts.
Do you have any access to the U.S. Navy in order to compare the skills of their F-14 pilots?
Iām not trying to offend you, noway my friend.
I just express my opinion, that is we can not have a comparison for these matters due to lack or real and secret evidences.
Just think of it ;).
Nikos.this is the point bro, I am talking about unclassified informationās . a history of a cap mission for example not detail . I believe that there are Ace pilot in USN but my point is that they didnāt prove the ability of F-14 as Air force do to F-15 . they didnāt publish any thing. I didnāt mean our pilot are more skilled or less , I mean that the record that proven & recorded by Iran F-14 pilot is not done by USN F-14 pilot due to some reason.
1st: in Iran-Iraq was no one support Iran & every body support Iraq & it Iraqi pilot brave & eager to challenge F-14 pilot . & easily Iran F-14 pilot dominate sky .while in Persian gulf war every thing are upside down or inverted. the Iraqi pilot had terrible experience challenging F-14(in Iran-Iraq war) & buy the way this time no one support them , so as you see result is clear. did USN pilot fight with Iran pilot condition?
did their F-14 lost US supply support while their enemy is clear & free to buy every new weapon & air craft every day to maintain Air dominance but till the end of war(8 years of war) couldnāt gain air dominance ? a good pilot identified in terrible condition, not in climax . when i am telling you this real I am talking in all aspect. I didnāt mean that USN pilot are cheap or ā¦ , I mean that IRIAF pilots achieve records that in they condition is like miracle .
I offer you to study Iran-Iraq war. and compare it with Persian gulf war or even Kosovo . I mean this. conditions.conditions.conditions.
by the way I believe in USN pilot tooooooooooooooo much. because navy collect aces because a carrier have no support just some naval destroyer & itās pilot & Interceptors.I am talking about recorded document of war that with simple search you can find. not about my dreams.
if USN publish any thing about F-14 and itās record like long range hunt of Aim-54 or as IRIAF engagine 3 mig-23 by one shot of Aim-54 , give me source . I can give you Persian source . tom cooper write a book too.Iranian F-14 Tomcat Units in Combat - Tom Cooper which this ACE pilot tell me itās not bad but not 100% accurate.
And more important fact is there is no more active F-14 in USN to navy pilot do the same thing , this is the reason I said dreams. They have no chance to achive such goal & record their name in history like this because there is no more F-14 in service in USN .
I repeat I didnāt mean that USN navy pilot are cheap or ā¦ . no . I mean that since they didnāt had the same chance to prove their self this way with this conditions they have to dream this terrible experience . some thing like this but if again you think I am offending you be sure I donāt have this aim. just tell me to try to say my mean more clearly & simple. Excuse me if I offend anyone unwantedly .
wish you all bests. Heydar ( I have to goooooooooooooo) -
The current F-14A Falcon is far away from accurate.
BTW, there is no way to ādisableā the AoA limiter in BMS, so I do not understand what has been said previously.Pressing Shitf-C?
With 4 AIM-7 & 4 AIM-9, and a GW of 53,873lbs, a F-14A can reach M1.26 at 5,000ft (766 Kts CAS) and its Design limit is M1.4 (850Kts CAS)
For this configuration, the projected structural limit load factor was 7.5G, but tha actual operational one has been reduced to 6.
Under same configuration, the maximum sustained turn rate is 15.25 d/s @ M0.5/305 Kts IAS.
For comparison,- a F-4E Blk50 with slats, with 4xAIM-7 and 50% internal fuel, aka GW=41407lbs had a maximum sustained turn rate of 13.3 d/s (-2) reached at 500Kts IAS, and can sustain only 11.5d/s at 305 IAS
- a Mig-21bis (iz75A) with 2R-60 and 50% internal fuel (GW=16,318lbs) can sustain 10.5 d/s at M0.5/305Kts and 12.1@ 450Kts)
- a F-16 Blk52 with 2AIM-9 and 2xAIM-120 at a GW of 25,000lbs can sustain 16.9 d/s at 342Kts (maximum) and 15.7 at 305Kts.
At 15,000ft, Under same condition, the F-14A can sustain (maximum) 11.5 d/s at M0.65 (330Kts), the F-16Blk52 sustain 12.3 d/s @ 465Kts (and 11.5 at M0.65/330Kts)
So, yes ,the F-14A had better turn rate (max and at low speed) than F-4, Mig-21ā¦, but is clearly bellow the F-16Blk52 at 5,000ft (quite all speed), and at 15,000ft is equivalent at medium/low speed, and bellow at higher speed).
I never compared it to a 2X2 AIM-120&AIM-9 loaded Blk52, only with a 2X4, at 50% internal fuel. As the latter configuration pretty much equals the STR for both ACās from sea level to 15k ft, i have no reason to doubt you, the 2X2 Viper should out turn the Cat in most conditions. I am under impression that the heavier loads for the F-14A are over modeled and the lighter are under modeled. The ITR and high alpha performance is sorely under modeled though.
EDIT: solving the G-loads issue is not possible in Falcon engine i fear. The only way to properly mod it, would be implement airframe fatigue life. Even at sea level the F-14A does not sustain much more then a 7g (maybe up to 8?) turn (in the said configuration) just by virtue of limited thrust. And the instantaneous gās were never an issue for any plane as they donāt last long anyway.
Dear topolo & Mike Metcalf , whould you say more clear & simple,
I didnāt get what you mean , maybe because of my weakness in EnglishI really donāt know how to put it in other wordsā¦.sorry
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When Cold War Russia taught the best tactics against the F-14 were to run, or try to overload it by coming in at multiple angles with multiple aircraft, all their customers did the same. The Iran-Iraq war was the Superpowersā watching game, they saw what worked and what didnāt without too much intervention. Russia realized it needed a good self defense jammer and better RWR on their tactical jets. By the time Desert Storm went live, the well practiced tctic of running from an AWG-9 paint was a reality. F-14s chased and forced enemy fighters into free-flying F-15 MiGCAPs as instructed. They didnāt (officially) lob any AIM-54s at long range targets because their discrimination capability at that time was not nearly as good as the F-15 over land. An Iranian pilot knows anyone coming inbound is bad, so just shoot. They were well trained and they did just that. The Navy F-14 drivers knew that over 95% of the aircraft in the air at any given time were allies. The US Air Force had JTIDS and well practiced COMMs with the AWACs. The US just went with a sure thing for MiG kills. What most people do not realize is that when the F-14D shot at the MiG-25 in Iraq during Southern Watch, the MiG-25 flew a high speed curve to use the missiles energy. The Iraqis knew what they were doing and evaded several AIM-7/AIM-120 shots by F-15s the same day. The enemy was more cautious and prepared when fighting the US Navy tomcats that is all. Iām sure there are more camera stills of gunsight pippers on enemy pilots planes during non-shooting confrontations. We just didnāt get the chance to make the kills.
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Find the dat file of AC and set higher max. AoA and G for F-14 and try ther result. Only proplem the FM data. How far (max. AoA) are defined the FM tablesā¦?
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Find the dat file of AC and set higher max. AoA and G for F-14 and try ther result. Only proplem the FM data. How far (max. AoA) are defined the FM tablesā¦?
Good advice, thanks mate.
I havenāt started BMS in a few weeks except to try Stingrayās skins on friday. Wish i had more time to experiment with it. Do you know of someone who actively works on the FMs? Or i can find basic instructions on moding Falcon FMās? -
Shift+C does not de-activate AoA limiter, it just change it.
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Shift+C does not de-activate AoA limiter, it just change it.
Yeah and in my case it changes it to over 60 degrees. I think i located the problem. I removed the AFM file from the folder and now the Cat acts in a completely different manner. The thing is without the AFM, the catapults donāt workā¦.
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Playing with the limiters can have an effect on ai performance to fly the ac, they cant recover from a high aoa/stall, its easy to see it, if its set too high. Do a 2-ship take off, as soon as you lift do a hard 180 turn and watch the ai max out the aoa and fall to the ground.
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Playing with the limiters can have an effect on ai performance to fly the ac, they cant recover from a high aoa/stall, its easy to see it, if its set too high. Do a 2-ship take off, as soon as you lift do a hard 180 turn and watch the ai max out the aoa and fall to the ground.
This wonāt make things any easier
But iāll experiment a bit the next week if i can get some spare time from work and will report on the results. -
Also keep in mind there where ways to override the DFC on the F-14D during ACM but the DFC allowed the F-14A to behave better in ACM? This is from pilots comments, so it may be how they preferred to fly. So donāt nerf my turkey too much.
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Also keep in mind there where ways to override the DFC on the F-14D during ACM but the DFC allowed the F-14A to behave better in ACM? This is from pilots comments, so it may be how they preferred to fly. So donāt nerf my turkey too much.
All the changes need to be applied to the AFM and the AI uses the basic FM if iām correct? However changing the values without some sort of legend is a ghost chase. If the dat file is correct, the author of the AFM is Mav-jp, so maybe we should ask him to clarify it for us?
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Shift + C is the default mapping for the CAT limiter switch.
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When Cold War Russia taught the best tactics against the F-14 were to run, or try to overload it by coming in at multiple angles with multiple aircraft, all their customers did the same. The Iran-Iraq war was the Superpowersā watching game, they saw what worked and what didnāt without too much intervention. Russia realized it needed a good self defense jammer and better RWR on their tactical jets. By the time Desert Storm went live, the well practiced tctic of running from an AWG-9 paint was a reality. F-14s chased and forced enemy fighters into free-flying F-15 MiGCAPs as instructed. They didnāt (officially) lob any AIM-54s at long range targets because their discrimination capability at that time was not nearly as good as the F-15 over land. An Iranian pilot knows anyone coming inbound is bad, so just shoot. They were well trained and they did just that. The Navy F-14 drivers knew that over 95% of the aircraft in the air at any given time were allies. The US Air Force had JTIDS and well practiced COMMs with the AWACs. The US just went with a sure thing for MiG kills. What most people do not realize is that when the F-14D shot at the MiG-25 in Iraq during Southern Watch, the MiG-25 flew a high speed curve to use the missiles energy. The Iraqis knew what they were doing and evaded several AIM-7/AIM-120 shots by F-15s the same day. The enemy was more cautious and prepared when fighting the US Navy tomcats that is all. Iām sure there are more camera stills of gunsight pippers on enemy pilots planes during non-shooting confrontations. We just didnāt get the chance to make the kills.
before writing this post I talk to this ACE and he said that his word are not true .
he said recently I have been invited to US to have conferrers For USN Former F-14 pilot and talk for them. he has 560 tactical Mission. from 2 hour flight till 9 hour. most of them were 9 hour CAP mission. he promises me to in few days give me some document with strong source to show the truth to you all . I am not in good mood to talk. but you words are 90% not true . dear bro he said about 8 years USA watch our tactics use and improve it to maintain dominance . the F-14D build on our war experience and our pilot profile . I said that he is so respectful to USN F-14 pilots. especially their aces and old ones . he said USN F-14 had not any combat and tactical mission and actual fight in his history just 3 time. I am not in mood to write really. I am not in mood. but he said that he has more document (strong document) than any one want to refuse to accept that. I will publish it here later.An Iranian pilot knows anyone coming inbound is bad, so just shoot
what is your reference to say that?!!!
when you know nothing about some thing better to not judge .
every engage in sky during the war was after clearance given by ground radar crew and Bat aircrafts & ā¦ then shoot . this is accepted by the pilots.
you talking about one of most professional pilots that you people (both air-force & & navy pilot of us) accept that. he said that the guy who tell you this sentence by this sentence show that know nothing and just act as someone who know. itās not my word . itās not his exact words. but seem to mean the way like this. I am not here to say something in my dreams . no, my source is Air force Aces who know the truth . I donāt know you . I donāt know u are in USN or USAF or not. but he is in IRI-AF & he was in II-AF before 1979 revolution. he know many pilots in USN( I donāt know about USAF in fact I didnāt ask him so far) . do you know still in US F-14 legend believed and many former F-14 pilot held some kind of seminars sometime and talk about their Experiences & ā¦ . and he is one of invitations !!! to talk about F-14 for them . you know why? becuase he used F-14 in real actual fight and dogfight & ā¦ . while USN no. i say strong no. I am not offending or challenging . you should accept the truth. truth is there is no official document to show USN use their F-14 and Aim-54 as real combat & actual fighting flight in war may be more than 5 time an may even less. dear bro wait for my docs about Iran-Iraq war. I will publish them soon. if admin didnāt ban me. :lol:But admin donāt scare , I donāt want to make trouble for you. just some doc of Iran-Iraq war based on F-14 hunts. & about some thing like this .
My G-mail if Admin scared and baned me or dellet my acount: [email protected]by the way I understand indirectly and like an inference form his word when we test F-15 & f-14 to choose F-14 was much beyond the imagination than F-15 .And he exactly said more maneuverable . I guess from his words, the public docs and manuals of F-14 is not accurate . did any one know about f-14 Flap maneuvers ?!! or ā¦
I love all of you, believe me. I am not here to be rude or offend any one but I love TomCat tooooooo much. Tomcat is much more poor in history than anyone could imagine. many people love him but how many know him exactly as that they know F-15 or F-16 ? 99.9999999999999999999999999% of people even know the material use in F-16 tire wheels but there are veryyyyyyyyyyyyyyy few people know F-14 have glove . and what is the usage. I donāt mean this forum people .
thnx you all for reading and replying to my post especially dear Turkeydriver . excuse me if my post are offending & rude .
Heydar