F-14D Cockpit
-
Any progress mykinge? Very interested, and as many are, really anticipating a release
-
I hope this one makes it to the next update, together with the hornet.
-
bump
-
-
-
Architectural development is time consuming job. First hand experience hereā¦deadline, deadline, deadlines everywhere
-
If someone ask me to share LODs which can be exported from my MOD, is it allowed to share?
-
Just said interestingā¦
I agree the article seems a bit biased but you just need to take the parts you want
I personally liked to learn a bit more about the Iranians Tomcats!
Pepe
you publish the pit as soon as you can I will tell you some thing( but not restricted or classified information because I donāt know them too :lol: :mrgreen: )
I know a F-14 Tomcat retired pilot of IRIAF .he dogfight with 13 Iraqi Aircraft & forced to push more than 11G( more than F-14 limit) to evade their missile (his Boots blow & his tummy Sprain(wrench) his both meniscus teared (both internal & lateral) both (him & RIOās) helmets Flaw & ā¦) and in Dog fight due to very low altitude dog fighting 3 of them crash to water & others escaped . this action is recorded( not as video as document) . he is ACE . from his words I figured that this F-14 currently flying in BMS is not correct. the real cat is much more maneuverable than this. now he Surgery his legs more than 13 time . now when he type some thing from his arms till palm of hands Numb & many other ā¦. . Peoples see a pilot maneuver and do loops & ā¦ then enjoy and wish to be fighter pilot , they never see other side of coin . the painful & hard side.
Heydar
-
you publish the pit as soon as you can I will tell you some thing( but not restricted or classified information because I donāt know them too :lol: :mrgreen: )
I know a F-14 Tomcat retired pilot of IRIAF .he dogfight with 13 Iraqi Aircraft & forced to push more than 11G( more than F-14 limit) to evade their missile (his Boots blow & his tummy Sprain(wrench) his both meniscus teared (both internal & lateral) both (him & RIOās) helmets Flaw & ā¦) and in Dog fight due to very low altitude dog fighting 3 of them crash to water & others escaped . this action is recorded( not as video as document) . he is ACE . from his words I figured that this F-14 currently flying in BMS is not correct. the real cat is much more maneuverable than this. now he Surgery his legs more than 13 time . now when he type some thing from his arms till palm of hands Numb & many other ā¦. . Peoples see a pilot maneuver and do loops & ā¦ then enjoy and wish to be fighter pilot , they never see other side of coin . the painful & hard side.
Heydar
The current flight model (from some basic flight tests i made) seams to be more or less based on the official open source manuals. The problem is, it is modeled as that regardless of the current configuration. I.E. the big Turkey should be able to hit 800 knots at sea level, when in clean configuration or with 2 sidewinders on stations 1 and 8, even when full on fuel and with the TF-30 engines. However if you take clean Tomcat right now and dash the sea surface at most you can do is mach 1.16 which is the speed limit given for the 4XAIM-7 and 4XAIM-9 as given in the manuals. The acceleration magically stops there as if you had hit a wall. This is just one example. Another would be the AoA limiter, which didnāt exist as such on the A and B models. Even the Dās didnāt get digital flight control till the mid 90ās which restricted their alpha capability by a significant margin (not that it mattered since by then they were mostly moving mud). Even if you click Shit-C and disable the AoA limiter in BMS, the F-14 stalls above 32-33 degrees and although it does not go into a flat spin, recovering from this stall is sometimes an odd process. In reality the the transitional buffet did not start until 30+ degrees while in BMS it starts at 25. The airflow did not become fully separated well above 50 degrees, while here it does so around 35 degrees. Without an engine flameout or differential control input the plane would not depart even under these extreme conditions unlike in BMS. There is probably more, way more that can be corrected. Still, the model does some things right. You can pull more then 8g in some circumstances and the sim allows it.
-
Lots of great info in a single post Mike, thanks a lot!
-
yw mate
-
The current F-14A Falcon is far away from accurate.
BTW, there is no way to ādisableā the AoA limiter in BMS, so I do not understand what has been said previously.With 4 AIM-7 & 4 AIM-9, and a GW of 53,873lbs, a F-14A can reach M1.26 at 5,000ft (766 Kts CAS) and its Design limit is M1.4 (850Kts CAS)
For this configuration, the projected structural limit load factor was 7.5G, but tha actual operational one has been reduced to 6.
Under same configuration, the maximum sustained turn rate is 15.25 d/s @ M0.5/305 Kts IAS.
For comparison,- a F-4E Blk50 with slats, with 4xAIM-7 and 50% internal fuel, aka GW=41407lbs had a maximum sustained turn rate of 13.3 d/s (-2) reached at 500Kts IAS, and can sustain only 11.5d/s at 305 IAS
- a Mig-21bis (iz75A) with 2R-60 and 50% internal fuel (GW=16,318lbs) can sustain 10.5 d/s at M0.5/305Kts and 12.1@ 450Kts)
- a F-16 Blk52 with 2AIM-9 and 2xAIM-120 at a GW of 25,000lbs can sustain 16.9 d/s at 342Kts (maximum) and 15.7 at 305Kts.
At 15,000ft, Under same condition, the F-14A can sustain (maximum) 11.5 d/s at M0.65 (330Kts), the F-16Blk52 sustain 12.3 d/s @ 465Kts (and 11.5 at M0.65/330Kts)
So, yes ,the F-14A had better turn rate (max and at low speed) than F-4, Mig-21ā¦, but is clearly bellow the F-16Blk52 at 5,000ft (quite all speed), and at 15,000ft is equivalent at medium/low speed, and bellow at higher speed).
FYI, the current F-14A BMS FM give sustain turn rate higher than the Blk52 at quite any speed, so is clearly over modeled in this area.
-
he real cat is much more maneuverable than this
I have to say a big noā¦
-
@Heydar,
Iāll be your friend has some very interesting stories to tell! There was a post a while back that had a video of Iranās F-14s fighting against Iraq. It was very interesting to me because, looking at the F-14 from a U.S. perspective it doesnāt really have much of a fighting record. But it never occurred to me to consider that Iran has done a ton of fighting with their Tomcats. A very U.S.-centric view, I know. The video really opened my eyes.Thanks for sharing your friendās experience with us.
-
I have to say a big noā¦
I donāt know what do you mean.
But truth is Tomcat is much more poor in history than anyone could imagine.
All of you guys talking about open source which are General.
I am talking about a F-14 pilot Experiences . physician calculate & ā¦ but at the end pilot have to risk his life & prove the case(subject) .
his record is more ā¦ than you could even imagine .
He was originally F-5E pilot when diverted to F-14 . he said with all love an a little Bias I have to F-5E but I have to declare that F-5E is nothing to F-14 . exactly nothing. and will be defeated veeeeeeeeeeerrrrrrrryyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy easily by F-14 pilot if he has experience . I saw a video in you tube which F-14 student challenge their instructures in F-16 ( 100% you see too) , 1st master defeat first student due to his lack of experience but the second instructure was trapped in student talent and ask flight lead to come and help him & he(flight lead) finally knock out student and rescue the other master, but remember me one thing, 1st important thing is Experience . if you are in F-22 but simple student & a master in F-86, master will knock you as easy as drinking glass of water. I know itās exaggerated sentence but really important .Iranian F-14 pilot have records that USN tomcat pilot must have them in dreams . Unlike to west try to show that Iranian F-14 was not operational during Iran-Iraq war but truth is miracle which made by F-14 . which their documents are recorded.you can ask navy F-14 pilot about iraqi pilot react during Persian gulf war when they realize a US F-14 is patrolling in area 10000% they hear āef arba ashar , ta ajjal ta ajjal alfarar (mean= F-14 hurry hurry scape)ā as our pilot hear that many time .
Dear topolo & Mike Metcalf , whould you say more clear & simple,
I didnāt get what you mean , maybe because of my weakness in English , I was going to English class about 10 years ago & quit class before finishing course . I didnāt get what you mean. I have to go for study have no more time , but i try to come and read and answer when I had time.dear toonces, which movie?!!!
could you share it? did you mean video published by IRIAF & press TV & itās name was tomcat fights or some thing like this!!! if not would you share it?
thanx , Heydar -
Iranian F-14 pilot have records that USN tomcat pilot must have them in dreams.
Very absolute theory that can not be based to real facts.
Do you have any access to the U.S. Navy in order to compare the skills of their F-14 pilots?
Iām not trying to offend you, noway my friend.
I just express my opinion, that is we can not have a comparison for these matters due to lack or real and secret evidences.
Just think of it ;).
Nikos. -
I donāt know what do you mean.
F-14 is not under, rather over modeled in Falconā¦
-
Very absolute theory that can not be based to real facts.
Do you have any access to the U.S. Navy in order to compare the skills of their F-14 pilots?
Iām not trying to offend you, noway my friend.
I just express my opinion, that is we can not have a comparison for these matters due to lack or real and secret evidences.
Just think of it ;).
Nikos.this is the point bro, I am talking about unclassified informationās . a history of a cap mission for example not detail . I believe that there are Ace pilot in USN but my point is that they didnāt prove the ability of F-14 as Air force do to F-15 . they didnāt publish any thing. I didnāt mean our pilot are more skilled or less , I mean that the record that proven & recorded by Iran F-14 pilot is not done by USN F-14 pilot due to some reason.
1st: in Iran-Iraq was no one support Iran & every body support Iraq & it Iraqi pilot brave & eager to challenge F-14 pilot . & easily Iran F-14 pilot dominate sky .while in Persian gulf war every thing are upside down or inverted. the Iraqi pilot had terrible experience challenging F-14(in Iran-Iraq war) & buy the way this time no one support them , so as you see result is clear. did USN pilot fight with Iran pilot condition?
did their F-14 lost US supply support while their enemy is clear & free to buy every new weapon & air craft every day to maintain Air dominance but till the end of war(8 years of war) couldnāt gain air dominance ? a good pilot identified in terrible condition, not in climax . when i am telling you this real I am talking in all aspect. I didnāt mean that USN pilot are cheap or ā¦ , I mean that IRIAF pilots achieve records that in they condition is like miracle .
I offer you to study Iran-Iraq war. and compare it with Persian gulf war or even Kosovo . I mean this. conditions.conditions.conditions.
by the way I believe in USN pilot tooooooooooooooo much. because navy collect aces because a carrier have no support just some naval destroyer & itās pilot & Interceptors.I am talking about recorded document of war that with simple search you can find. not about my dreams.
if USN publish any thing about F-14 and itās record like long range hunt of Aim-54 or as IRIAF engagine 3 mig-23 by one shot of Aim-54 , give me source . I can give you Persian source . tom cooper write a book too.Iranian F-14 Tomcat Units in Combat - Tom Cooper which this ACE pilot tell me itās not bad but not 100% accurate.
And more important fact is there is no more active F-14 in USN to navy pilot do the same thing , this is the reason I said dreams. They have no chance to achive such goal & record their name in history like this because there is no more F-14 in service in USN .
I repeat I didnāt mean that USN navy pilot are cheap or ā¦ . no . I mean that since they didnāt had the same chance to prove their self this way with this conditions they have to dream this terrible experience . some thing like this but if again you think I am offending you be sure I donāt have this aim. just tell me to try to say my mean more clearly & simple. Excuse me if I offend anyone unwantedly .
wish you all bests. Heydar ( I have to goooooooooooooo) -
The current F-14A Falcon is far away from accurate.
BTW, there is no way to ādisableā the AoA limiter in BMS, so I do not understand what has been said previously.Pressing Shitf-C?
With 4 AIM-7 & 4 AIM-9, and a GW of 53,873lbs, a F-14A can reach M1.26 at 5,000ft (766 Kts CAS) and its Design limit is M1.4 (850Kts CAS)
For this configuration, the projected structural limit load factor was 7.5G, but tha actual operational one has been reduced to 6.
Under same configuration, the maximum sustained turn rate is 15.25 d/s @ M0.5/305 Kts IAS.
For comparison,- a F-4E Blk50 with slats, with 4xAIM-7 and 50% internal fuel, aka GW=41407lbs had a maximum sustained turn rate of 13.3 d/s (-2) reached at 500Kts IAS, and can sustain only 11.5d/s at 305 IAS
- a Mig-21bis (iz75A) with 2R-60 and 50% internal fuel (GW=16,318lbs) can sustain 10.5 d/s at M0.5/305Kts and 12.1@ 450Kts)
- a F-16 Blk52 with 2AIM-9 and 2xAIM-120 at a GW of 25,000lbs can sustain 16.9 d/s at 342Kts (maximum) and 15.7 at 305Kts.
At 15,000ft, Under same condition, the F-14A can sustain (maximum) 11.5 d/s at M0.65 (330Kts), the F-16Blk52 sustain 12.3 d/s @ 465Kts (and 11.5 at M0.65/330Kts)
So, yes ,the F-14A had better turn rate (max and at low speed) than F-4, Mig-21ā¦, but is clearly bellow the F-16Blk52 at 5,000ft (quite all speed), and at 15,000ft is equivalent at medium/low speed, and bellow at higher speed).
I never compared it to a 2X2 AIM-120&AIM-9 loaded Blk52, only with a 2X4, at 50% internal fuel. As the latter configuration pretty much equals the STR for both ACās from sea level to 15k ft, i have no reason to doubt you, the 2X2 Viper should out turn the Cat in most conditions. I am under impression that the heavier loads for the F-14A are over modeled and the lighter are under modeled. The ITR and high alpha performance is sorely under modeled though.
EDIT: solving the G-loads issue is not possible in Falcon engine i fear. The only way to properly mod it, would be implement airframe fatigue life. Even at sea level the F-14A does not sustain much more then a 7g (maybe up to 8?) turn (in the said configuration) just by virtue of limited thrust. And the instantaneous gās were never an issue for any plane as they donāt last long anyway.
Dear topolo & Mike Metcalf , whould you say more clear & simple,
I didnāt get what you mean , maybe because of my weakness in EnglishI really donāt know how to put it in other wordsā¦.sorry
-
When Cold War Russia taught the best tactics against the F-14 were to run, or try to overload it by coming in at multiple angles with multiple aircraft, all their customers did the same. The Iran-Iraq war was the Superpowersā watching game, they saw what worked and what didnāt without too much intervention. Russia realized it needed a good self defense jammer and better RWR on their tactical jets. By the time Desert Storm went live, the well practiced tctic of running from an AWG-9 paint was a reality. F-14s chased and forced enemy fighters into free-flying F-15 MiGCAPs as instructed. They didnāt (officially) lob any AIM-54s at long range targets because their discrimination capability at that time was not nearly as good as the F-15 over land. An Iranian pilot knows anyone coming inbound is bad, so just shoot. They were well trained and they did just that. The Navy F-14 drivers knew that over 95% of the aircraft in the air at any given time were allies. The US Air Force had JTIDS and well practiced COMMs with the AWACs. The US just went with a sure thing for MiG kills. What most people do not realize is that when the F-14D shot at the MiG-25 in Iraq during Southern Watch, the MiG-25 flew a high speed curve to use the missiles energy. The Iraqis knew what they were doing and evaded several AIM-7/AIM-120 shots by F-15s the same day. The enemy was more cautious and prepared when fighting the US Navy tomcats that is all. Iām sure there are more camera stills of gunsight pippers on enemy pilots planes during non-shooting confrontations. We just didnāt get the chance to make the kills.