Naval Operations
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I know
Right now its even not possible (afaik) to make ships static. You can change speed to 0 or put movetype 0 (static) in DB, and they still move in a âquare box fashionâ.
If they are placed close to land - such has ports or coast - then ,they dont move, which is good Any idea how to address this?PS offtopic extra for you: Mav-JP, open :\Falcon BMS 4.32\Docs\Falcon 4 Legacy Manuals\ Falcon 4.0 Original Manual.pdf - please and go to chapter 26 to 26-5.
Can we recover those in BMS as it should be maybe possible due to the herritage of the code?
Right now SAM and AAA tactics dont work as in the original version of F4 and in AF, which is too pitty.⊠the always friendly A.S
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@A.S:
I know
Right now its even not possible (afaik) to make ships static. You can change speed to 0 or put movetype 0 (static) in DB, and they still move in a âquare box fashionâ.
If they are placed close to land - such has ports or coast - then ,they dont move, which is good Any idea how to address this?⊠the always friendly A.S
How to address this ? See point 4 , decode you can not
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What is the problem with 1)? I searched the forums and one locked thread was about the ac not being âconnectedâ to the 3d carrier after landing, and one just said you explode if you spawn on the carrier in mp.
Is it a sync problem when spawning? Does the player âtake controlâ of the carrier from the server when spawning? Would it be better if the carriers were deaggregated(spell that once more) all the time and server controlled?Cheers
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well the thing is spawn⊠didnât fully understood the question. As i got it he must mean how to have ai take off from carriers? Thatâs why i said to create naval squadrons to bound them with the carriers.
Now as Mav said about the Zaxis of the deck⊠well this could also be used for airbases and have more realistic elevation, or uneven elevations, and not the flat airbases we have know. Did I got it wrong?
Also once again, sorry!!!, could u please create for ships the units transport? as is the airlift? This will solve way many troops transport problems in many theaters with islands. But not only for troops, vehicles also.
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well the thing is spawn⊠didnât fully understood the question. As i got it he must mean how to have ai take off from carriers? Thatâs why i said to create naval squadrons to bound them with the carriers.
Now as Mav said about the Zaxis of the deck⊠well this could also be used for airbases and have more realistic elevation, or uneven elevations, and not the flat airbases we have know. Did I got it wrong?
Also once again, sorry!!!, could u please create for ships the units transport? as is the airlift? This will solve way many troops transport problems in many theaters with islands. But not only for troops, vehicles also.
Spawning on a carrier in MP is not reliable thatâs the point
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Edit: I added quote (because my answer was related rather to ships generally, not to classic F14,18 etc carrier ops)
AS wrote:Right now its even not possible (afaik) to make ships static. You can change speed to 0 or put movetype 0 (static) in DB, and they still move in a âquare box fashionâ.
U can make invisible objective with PT points. Then u can place NAVAL unit over it and particular ships will sit in defined formation/orientation. This is how I created âcomposite unitsâ described bellowâŠok its rather âDemer styleâ typed :D, but u can perhaps dig some inspiration from itâŠ
What I did in my AF European mod some time ago to enhance NAVAL ops was a mix of unit types and texture sets:
PT boats, missile boats, stealthy corvettes - Ground units
(i did 2 submarine types this way as well - attack and missile, special munitions needed against them - generic units same for red and blue side)- they can be managed via waypoints, can be slaved to HQ and are participating in the campaign (one of camp objectives can be the naval one)
- can engage all types of targets, visible missile armament
- are not auto displayed on the campmap (u must make recon)
± they are smokeing (it looks nice)
-moveing on fake sea texture, if u take S-8 armed KA-29 and rocket small meneuvering PT boat, u can see ground poles (solution - remove poles geometry, imagine its loosing petrol, change pole geometry, change âsplashâ management- would be linked to alpha map instead region for example etc. code change, make just very small water region circle 1pixel somewhere on the tile - units should move as it was said many times no matter how region looks, it just has to be present for âmovableâ tile)
Frigates and larger were true naval units, but some sea tiles were land tiles:
these units are still visible in 2d map
uses normal NAVAL code
can launch air units
carriers, LHDs (we all know them)
Frigates, destroyers, cruisers etc⊠can launch helis and cruise missiles
if these units placed on normal water tile, they follow coded patterns
(Carriers were static in AF)
some units are âcompositedâ, means I did for example DDG_SA_b and DDG_SS_bh (name is optional of course) vehicles with SA and SS weapons, if u put them on normal sea tile, they move as normal ships, just looks damaged (DDG_SA_b looks ok in forward section but has heavily damaged stern, DDG_SS_bh has damaged rather nose, but stern section with Harpoons and helipad is okâŠso u see damged formation of two ships following pattern
if u place them on land type sea tile with defined invisible objective, they are composited into one undamaged shipâŠthis ship is capable to engage air, sea, undersea and ground targets using guns, AAA, SA, SS, manageable (even flyable) cruise missiles, helis for armed patrols and recon missions
Such a ship has damage point divided into 2 pieces - 2 missile hits can destroy its SA capability, but it can launch helis and fire antiships missiles, another 2 hits needed to kill itâŠinclemental damage model (btw it was even better to set helipad together with shorter SA-2d takeoffs + landings not blocked by 3d player, and make longer SS âŠ)short in timeâŠmust endâŠI tried objective based navals as wellâŠeach solution has + and -âŠI liked vehicle/unit approach more, it is simple, moveableâŠusefull as static port protection too (BTW these composed units were ment for static protection primary, my intention was to use all 3 naval types - classic, composite and fake GUâŠperhaps fifth âobjective basedâ type for CGN, butâŠ)
sample âgeneric red frigateâ (it was fast work, i used cccâs hull mast and gun, remodeled, made structures, mapping and fast texture)
damaged Lod is hidden inside undamaged geometry, when both parts operational
armed with SAM, heavy gun, light AAA, KH-35 and 1 heli 4 ship squad/flight, 1 frigate unit had 2 ships - means 4 damaged vehicles on move, 2 ships when sitting on static tileâŠthere was a topic opened in the near past - about the smallest air squadâŠif smaller could be set, 2 vehicle unit is possibleâŠor use drone heli instead of heavy Kamov - I belive 4 such a small drones are suitable for one complete frigate
http://i844.photobucket.com/albums/ab4/Luk77/all_light_helis.jpg
BTW DDG can operate 2 helis, some large cruisers even 3âŠ
P.S: i just realized i forgot to turn off imperfect destroyed LOD, when took screenshots of both SS and SA âdamagedâ LODs, so fallen mast and imperfect central texture stitch is not visible normaly, it belongs to destroyed model -
Thank you at BMS for always considering all of our dreams for an amazing combat flight sim. One thing I would love would be a few more nav aids on the carriers so that we could more easily find them in weather and at night. TACAN and ILS would be marvelous.
Thank you,
Raven
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Spawning on a carrier in MP is not reliable thatâs the point
why not? why on airbases it is? and why not on carriers?
I assume cause carriers are on the move and airbases not?
One solution before spawn stop the carrier so to fixate the position. After they leave have it on itâs way⊠-
Thank you at BMS for always considering all of our dreams for an amazing combat flight sim. One thing I would love would be a few more nav aids on the carriers so that we could more easily find them in weather and at night. TACAN and ILS would be marvelous.
Thank you,
Raven
For your information, carriers have already TACAN and ILS you need to set the correct frequency, read the naval ops article available on this website
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why not? why on airbases it is? and why not on carriers?
I assume cause carriers are on the move and airbases not?
One solution before spawn stop the carrier so to fixate the position. After they leave have it on itâs wayâŠnot so easy
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SIGHâŠâŠPlease!!!
Re-read the âFRIENDLYâ manual provided by BMS :rtfm:
More than half of your quest is answered there.tired demer
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No carrier improvments in the pipe
However improvments could be
- capability to spawn on carrier in MP ( I honnestly have no idea how to do this properly)
- working mirrors
- deck real Z detection
- taskforce waypoints working
Other stuff are more cosmetics and depend only on art guys will
Taaataaaaa
Guess what⊠taskforce waypoints DO work in BMS ⊠yess, you heard right (thanks Danguard for finding).
Problem is, taskforce waypoints (2,3,4 or more) can not be added in a working fashion into the save0.cam file, but there is a solution.
One has to ADD the naval units themselfs into the save0.cam file first, then start the campaign ingameâŠand instantly save it again (autosave works too).
Then open the autosave and click on the ships. Now they have 4 waypoints auto-initialized (waypoint pathes as a box) under the unit properties and waypoint editor button.
Click on a ship in the map and on âshow linksâ (not parent links) on top of tacedit and vio la, you see the red pathes and you can drag and drop the waypoints as you wish, or add some.
Remember, the ships will still loop the waypoints!Now to the tricky part as we arenÂŽt able to do that in the save0.cam file and a renaming of an autosave to a save0. cam file is always a disaster and a very bad idea generally.
Thus, the trick is to export ONLY those new ships with their new waypoints out of the autosave.cam file and later IMPORT them back into the save0.cam file.You are doneâŠthats it. Your ships now move along pre-determined waypoints in your campaign.
Well, i hope this information helps you figuring out the rest of your naval waypoint codings in future Mav-Jp.
Greetings from Falcon Online.
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No it does not work, you can define whatever waypoint position you want they will not follow them in game.
Test deagg carrier you will seeâŠ
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I would not have posted if it would not have been already confrimed and tested before Mav-Jp.
Proof of concept:
Are you sure you followed the logic (steps) in my previous post correctly? Or maybe you missed something in replicating the above?
Usually ships (if not close to the coast) move automatically in a âboxâ (why i dont know), but with the method above one can at least make them move (looped) over different individual waypoints.
The method described above is indeed an unconventional and not the proper logic way (just a workaround), but as it does work, i thought it might be an interesting find for you in order to dig and understand more in depth for better proper solutions later on. -
@A.S:
I would not have posted if it would not have been already confrimed and tested before Mav-Jp.
Proof of concept:
1 http://www.pictureshoster.com/thumbnails/wzisui80dnfcu6vqmpce_thumb.jpg 2 http://www.pictureshoster.com/thumbnails/21bpyjmqrklks87opm6_thumb.jpg
Are you sure you followed the logic (steps) in my previous post correctly? Or maybe you missed something in replicating the above?
Usually ships (if not close to the coast) move automatically in a âboxâ (why i dont know), but with the method above one can at least make them move (looped) over different individual waypoints.
The method described above is indeed an unconventional and not the proper logic way (just a workaround), but as it does work, i thought it might be an interesting find for you in order to dig and understand more in depth for better proper solutions later on.It does not work
Test in 3d with deagged carrier
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Hi A.S.
@A.S:
I would not have posted if it would not have been already confrimed and tested before Mav-Jp.
Proof of concept:
1 http://www.pictureshoster.com/thumbnails/wzisui80dnfcu6vqmpce_thumb.jpg 2 http://www.pictureshoster.com/thumbnails/21bpyjmqrklks87opm6_thumb.jpg
Are you sure you followed the logic (steps) in my previous post correctly? Or maybe you missed something in replicating the above?
Usually ships (if not close to the coast) move automatically in a âboxâ (why i dont know), but with the method above one can at least make them move (looped) over different individual waypoints.
The method described above is indeed an unconventional and not the proper logic way (just a workaround), but as it does work, i thought it might be an interesting find for you in order to dig and understand more in depth for better proper solutions later on.as JP said this does not work in 3dâŠ
Maybe with 4.33 we can see some improvements here (but ATM I donât remember exactly what Iâve changed on ship movement).Cheers
Biker -
I am not talking about CARRIERS ⊠its just a find to make ALL SHIPS move over waypoints YOU like⊠and NOT the BOX/Quare they usally âswimâ.
Cant you see in the screenshots i provided the difference how they move compared to this:<<< This is how theY usually move in stock BMS on their own. Its always a âboxâ (auto-generated by the code).
Are you telling me that in 2D they move like this (STOCK): http://www.pictureshoster.com/files/âŠzfwychzt92.jpg BOX
and with the ânewâ waypoints like this: http://www.pictureshoster.com/files/âŠklks87opm6.jpg INDIVIDUAL WAYPOINTS, BUT in 3D they still move like a âboxâ ??
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@A.S:
I am not talking about CARRIERS ⊠its just a find to make ALL SHIPS move over waypoints YOU like⊠and NOT the BOX/Quare they usally âswimâ.
Cant you see in the screenshots i provided the difference how they move compared to this:http://www.pictureshoster.com/thumbnails/srinpphc4zfwychzt92_thumb.jpg <<< This is how the usually move in stock BMS on their own. Its always a âboxâ.
Are you telling me that in 2D they move like this (STOCK): http://www.pictureshoster.com/files/âŠzfwychzt92.jpg BOX
and with the ânewâ waypoints like this: http://www.pictureshoster.com/files/âŠklks87opm6.jpg INDIVIDUAL WAYPOINTS, BUT in 3D they still move like a âboxâ ??
yes in 3D they will not follow your waypointsâŠ
worse, they dont know how to turn, so they will stop when 1 âwaypointâ reached
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Interesting suff.
I have not checked the ACTUAL postions of movement in 3D yet. I do understand the de-synchronicity issus between 2D and 3D events though and the fact (as you say), that there is no waypoint code for ships available at all in 3D, only in 2D. Hmm⊠further testings needed.
Thanks for clarification and feeback.
EDIT: Finally it works anyways
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worse, they dont know how to turn, so they will stop when 1 âwaypointâ reached
Ah, that was the reason I joined virtual Air Force instead of Navy.