Mainly for Mav-JP - 12 degrees stick axes offset
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if i understand correctly , only the AFT/ FWD sensor is rotated ? the left right is not ? (i.e. no roll / pitch coupling but only pitch / roll coupling ?)
i dont get it :(…
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It is not something that a rl pilot will focus to the first time he grabs the stick on the air, he will quickly get used of it without worried what is inside there. I didn’t had any problems on 6 different rl sims anyway, but of course I cannot tell if the sensors inside the SCC were actually rotated 12deg cw to match the rl thing.
I do however have some few hud vids from new pilots that when pulling back on the stick they actually seem to try to keep the bird steady in the roll axis, continuously banking the jet up to 20deg, until relaxing on the stick again.
BTW, when a customer purchases this jet, he can request the FLCS to be programmed as per his requirements, within some limits of course according to LM or system(s) specs. I know for such a criteria, when the jet is performing a full roll in clean catI config, not to loose more that 200ft (example, don’t remember the value) in altitude from the start point. If the recorded test was unsuccessful the team had to reprogram the FLCS to perform as it should otherwise the plane was not delivered to the final user.
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Ha, ha! Mav, you just raised a new discussion subject!
But I don’t think so if this drawing is accurate:
http://www.blu3wolf.com/Images/pics/F-16_F6.jpg
Nigel! Thank you very much for your input! Yes I do have Arend’s FCC2 but I was under the impression that the software option was better solution than modding. Now that I got the hint about TARGET scripts I will try that and if Mav adds a cfg option even better!
Cheers
Tulkas
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FLIGHT CONTROL SYSTEM OPERATIONS
Stick
The stick is a force-sensing unit which contains transducers
in both pitch and roll axes, moves approximately 1/4 inch in
both axes, and is rotated slightly cw. Maximum nose up and
nose down pitch commands are generated by 25 and 16
pounds of input, respectively. Roll commands are generated
by a maximum of 17 pounds in cruise gains and by 12
pounds in takeoff and landing gains. When using the
switches/ buttons on the stick, inadvertent inputs to the
FLCS are possible. The wrist rest and armrest assemblies,
which may be used in conjunction with the stick, are located
on the right side wall aft of the stick. -
Don’t know where you got that picture from, but that is NOT right in the real jet.
And I don’t want to spent more energy on this here topic, and sertelny not on some home made cad drawings. Sorry AmraamAnd read your own post, ITS THE TRANSDUCERS there is rotated.
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And read your own post, ITS THE TRANSDUCERS there is rotated.
in english, those tenses indicate that the stick is the object rotated, not the transducers.
the stick IS… contains transducerS… and IS (not “which ARE”) rotated…
That said we alsl have pictures of the jet which appear to have the stick physically aligned with the aircraft axes.
the paragraph is the same as the one I posted earlier in the thread anyway, from the dash one.
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Don’t know where you got that picture from, but that is NOT right in the real jet.
And I don’t want to spent more energy on this here topic, and sertelny not on some home made cad drawings. Sorry AmraamAnd read your own post, ITS THE TRANSDUCERS there is rotated.
Picture come from the real dash one PTC.
It does not mean that the stick himself is reorientate but the respond curve is. -
OK Amraam, got it.
I have never seen a physical Stick rotated 12 degree, never.
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i am sorry but i am completely lost now … apparently from dash one, the stick is rotated… (which TBH would make sens anyway)
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@Mav, it turns that the SCC and stick are actually aligned properly, the internal SCC sensors however have the 12deg cw positioning. Is is logical due to the wrist joint with the physical arm positioning that if pulling back the stick will give a physical wrist movement to actually the ~7 o’clock axis.
This weekend I will be close to rl so I’ll find out more. Don’t completely count on the manual, specially -1, as to other details it leaves this deeper details in black, no need for the passenger to know more. One would need access to the FLCS maintenance ppl to find out the answers.
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My friend is a FLCS specialist and I will talk to him too.
I have many Dash1 here + other MLU/BLK 50+ manuals, and I don’t see in any of the that the stick is twisted, but I can read that the newer BLK´s got there transducers twisted.
Please point me to the pages that show the stick twisted 12 degree.Kukki
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Amraam, what is PTC?
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I don´t think that picture from -1 intends to be an exhaustive explanation on the workings. It´s not a technical drawing just an illustration for the pilot of the forces and range of movement of movement of the stick. In fact the 12 rotation appears to be so subtle and becomes so natural that people don´t notice it.
So Mav:
The INTERNAL sensors are rotated, NOT the SSC case, not the stick:
I get the impression through reading docs that the stick could have a very slight rotation, but not noticeable just by eye (as you can see in the picture above), I would say 5 degrees or less but in NO case is following the 12 degrees of the sensors.
I hope that helps
Cheers
Tulkas
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Amraam, what is PTC?
Pilot training course. It’s a cd given to the pilot when he start training on the F-16. In fact, this is a dash one manual with some other information.
Edit: hehe, good shoot raptor!
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My friend is a FLCS specialist and I will talk to him too.
I have many Dash1 here + other MLU/BLK 50+ manuals, and I don’t see in any of the that the stick is twisted, but I can read that the newer BLK´s got there transducers twisted.
Please point me to the pages that show the stick twisted 12 degree.Kukki
we dont need information about FLCS… i got everything
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@Mav, it turns that the SCC and stick are actually aligned properly, the internal SCC sensors however have the 12deg cw positioning. Is is logical due to the wrist joint with the physical arm positioning that if pulling back the stick will give a physical wrist movement to actually the ~7 o’clock axis.
This weekend I will be close to rl so I’ll find out more. Don’t completely count on the manual, specially -1, as to other details it leaves this deeper details in black, no need for the passenger to know more. One would need access to the FLCS maintenance ppl to find out the answers.
sorry but this makes no sense at all
in amraam picture, the whole stick is clearly rotated.
in the quotation of the dash1, it is clear that the stick is rotated, not the sensors.
and if sensors were rotated, what if you put roll only ? then you will have pitch mixing as well ? WEIRD !
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Roll and pitch axes is rotated.
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……and the Pitch transducers in the BLK 10 Stickbase is NOT angled those 12 degree, but they are in the BLK 52 stick base, …
The BLK52 has a digital FLCS with a rudder stability augmentation system (SAS)? And the BLK 10 has a analog FLCS without rudder SAS and it also has a larger vertical stabilizer? iirc.
So the stick sensor could be rotated to add roll to correct for rudder to roll coupling when crabbing, caused by engine gyroscopic forces during pitch change, is corrected by the digital FLCS rudder SAS. LOL, it sounds thin.
If the engine acts like a gyroscope, a force equal to the to the force that is applied to the engine to rotate is also applied to the axis 90* to the engine turbine axis. This is the yaw axis. So engine gyroscope effect causes the a/c to crab. The digital FLCS will correct this crab with rudder, the analog FLCS does not. With a rudder command, there is some roll compiling. Nothing in the FLCS solves for rudder to roll coupling(only has rate dampening).
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@Mav, it turns that the SCC and stick are actually aligned properly, the internal SCC sensors however have the 12deg cw positioning. Is is logical due to the wrist joint with the physical arm positioning that if pulling back the stick will give a physical wrist movement to actually the ~7 o’clock axis…
Thiers only 1/4 inch of travel in the stick. Anything having to do with the arm’s rotary to linear motion wouldn’t be a factor imo if I’m understand you.
Also the arm rest is there to kept the pilot arm in axis. Is their a procedure that says the pilot need to set the arm set 12* to the stick?