Having trouble with aerial refueling is this normal?
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so today i decided to start practicing aerial refueling, and i have come to find that this isint a easy task at all… im using a Logitech extreme 3d Pro joystick and i really struggle stabilizing the plane and even getting under the tanker is a challenge. is this normal for beginners with refueling or am i just not good enough…?
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It is normal. I found AAR very frustrating at first, there are a couple of threads here with some great advice.
Are you using head-tracking? How do you control the throttle?
Cheers, Uwe
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so today i decided to start practicing aerial refueling, and i have come to find that this isint a easy task at all… im using a Logitech extreme 3d Pro joystick and i really struggle stabilizing the plane and even getting under the tanker is a challenge. is this normal for beginners with refueling or am i just not good enough…?
Totally normal. Some say AAR is the most difficult task to master in BMS.
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Totally normal. Some say AAR is the most difficult task to master in any flight sim.
FTFY
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no im not using head tracking…. (the 4 key right?) and i use the throttle on my joystick. what would u recommend?
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My trick friend is give and take small throttle movements (1 mm up-down, Its a lunacy :uham:). For this i’m watching the lower lights on the KC-135 (which mark you forward and back), if it mark forward I go to throttle-up 1 milimeter, if mark backward I go to throttle-down; the same applies to the altitude. You have to be continually correcting not as in previous versions of Falcon that was practically on rails. ONLY FOR EXPERTS. . Good luck and training it much more.
PD: Turning its for great Gurus.
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…. what would u recommend?
Practice, practice, practice. Then, when you’ve done that, practice and practice some more.
It’s the only real solution.
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and don’t curse on
“cowbow1-1 heads up tanker is entering turn” -
no im not using head tracking…. (the 4 key right?) and i use the throttle on my joystick. what would u recommend?
Most of peaple here called me idiot, but the only way why I could do AAR so far using fixed throttle settings and use only airbrake for small speed change. Of course not with full O/C key.
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Swift_Wings, I wonder what’s your background regarding simming? Have you played Allied Force or the original Falcon 4.0? Just referencing your other threads, it seems to me that you’re approaching this sim with expectations set a bit too high. No offense meant, but under full realism settings, the game is challenging even just keeping formation. A-A refuelling was easier on 4.32 due to the “tractor beam” effect, but you still had to make it to connect to the boom for that effect to kick in. With 4.33, this effect is now less noticeable, if at all, and even those who can A-A refuel in 4.32 had to “re-train” themselves to adapt to 4.33. Just giving you an idea of how challenging it could be.
However, don’t give up on it! Practice, practice, and practice! I couldn’t refuel for the longest time, but as soon as I was able to connect for a minute or two, that proved to me that I can do it. Eventually, I would fire up the A-A refuel TE just to relax. Sounds funny, doesn’t it? Well, to connect to the boom, you have to relax. Wiggle your fingers, wiggle your toes. Breathe. Relax. Otherwise, you will tense up and PIO (pilot-induced oscillation). So I had to relax. Once I was connected to the boom, I had forced myself to relax and refuelling was like the reward for it.
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As it’s talked very much, in real they say it’s easier. We lack the physical sense of speed.
So many many hours of test to find the hot spots.
sent from my Xperia Z3 compact via TapaTalk
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i find that using the speed break helps to dampen your throttle inputs which helps to match tanker speed. It’s still touchy but nowhere near without it. give it a shot!
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Every move with the stick and throttle must be done very very gently. You need to find a throttle position where aircraft keeps relatively 300 knots and then “walk on throttle” - some milimeters forward, then immediately back to neutral position and repeat this sequence if You don’t speed up enough. If you’re too fast do the opposite. Try to fly formation with a tanker and don’t focus on a beam. But first of all stay cool and calm.
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Swift_Wings, I wonder what’s your background regarding simming? Have you played Allied Force or the original Falcon 4.0? Just referencing your other threads, it seems to me that you’re approaching this sim with expectations set a bit too high. No offense meant, but under full realism settings, the game is challenging even just keeping formation. A-A refuelling was easier on 4.32 due to the “tractor beam” effect, but you still had to make it to connect to the boom for that effect to kick in. With 4.33, this effect is now less noticeable, if at all, and even those who can A-A refuel in 4.32 had to “re-train” themselves to adapt to 4.33. Just giving you an idea of how challenging it could be.
However, don’t give up on it! Practice, practice, and practice! I couldn’t refuel for the longest time, but as soon as I was able to connect for a minute or two, that proved to me that I can do it. Eventually, I would fire up the A-A refuel TE just to relax. Sounds funny, doesn’t it? Well, to connect to the boom, you have to relax. Wiggle your fingers, wiggle your toes. Breathe. Relax. Otherwise, you will tense up and PIO (pilot-induced oscillation). So I had to relax. Once I was connected to the boom, I had forced myself to relax and refuelling was like the reward for it.
+1. I’ll add my little bit to the holy “Practice” (for it comes with time more than anything else). This little bit is, observe the tanker as a whole as it “moves” on your screen. The lights are perfect to find the correct position for contact and understand how far you can go from it, but the real, fine corrections then come from the observation of the whole tanker, because lights are slightly late and not as precise in comparison. Throttle input don’t give immediate engine response, and engine don’t give immediate F16 reaction, which makes anticipation so important.
In my opinion, IR tracker is not important. I use one.
But that goes when you have already experienced the correct position. You’ll find a lot of videos, you can bet most are videos of successful refuels. I posted my second attempt to keep track of difficult times, and another one for art purposes, you can compare in two months… Now, obtaining contact while in turn is not a problem anymore (still a thrill, but no big deal). The problem is, you can’t train specifically in it, but there is a little trick: you simply need to turn accordingly, calmly, think that your throttle should give slighty more power, and slightly correct up with your stick regularly to follow the move. You have time to try that later…
AA Refueling is the most difficult, perhaps most interesting in terms of plane control, and probably most rewarding thing I’ve done so far.
(and don’t forget to open your trap, or pre-contact will never be granted )
Second attempt
Relax refueling
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Aerial refueling is a formation problem. Its not the same formation position as you normally fly on your lead, but its the same skills being used.
If you can fly formation, you can aerial refuel. If you cannot refuel, you probably cannot fly formation worth a damn either. Thats not that uncommon though! Takes a lot more practice than most new pilots recognise. I would recommend having a read of a formation guide if your problems persist: http://falcon.blu3wolf.com/Docs/FAST_FKG.pdf
Once you can fly formation, and do so comfortably, aerial refueling is just not a challenge (at least in clear daytime weather). Really helps for MP operations as well - being able to move your aircraft in the vicinity of another quickly and stably is a useful skill.
As with all skills, it takes study and practice to master it, and practice to maintain it. Good luck!
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Nice way to put it Blu3wolf.
If I’m right, prospective military pilots get a lot of formation work during their undergraduate training, so I daresay that in the RW, relatively tight formations are the norm.
Being able to move their aircraft in the vicinity of another quickly and stably scared the hell out of me the first time I refueled F-15s while deployed to Europe. The Eagle drivers were out of Bitburg AB. Each pulled up into pre-contact and stabilized about thirty feet back. When I cleared them in, it only took 'em about two seconds to move in, and I was a fraction of a second from calling for an emergency separation when they stopped ‘dead in their tracks.’
Still and all, they practice formation flight for tens if not hundreds of hours . . . but then again, it’s a big part of their job, so they have no choice but to learn it.
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Im jealous! That would have been quite the sight….
Your understanding meshes with mine - formation is a base, and core, skill, one that is practiced constantly. The first part of fighter training (after AHC) is BFM, and its explained in terms of how its like formation flying. I would probably say they practice formation flight for pretty much their entire career, on the majority of flights - right up until you start leading flights. The basic unit of fighter operations is the element after all… and half the pilots in an element are actively flying formation.
I know my own formation skills could use more practice than they get, and I would consider them above average for BMS pilots.
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As it’s talked very much, in real they say it’s easier. We lack the physical sense of speed.
The problem is not really the “sens of speed” per say.
- The main problem is the flight control accuracy (there is a different with the REAL FLCS, a ThrustMaster COUGAR with FSSB or FCC mod, and a 10$ joystick … difference also concerning the course of the throttle)
- The other problem is lack of perspective (3D) and this is what you maybe mistaking with “sens of speed”. But this is compensated by the brain quite rapidly.
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BTW … do it visually. Once in pre-contact, do not (never) refer to HUD’s indication. Forget about speed and altitude, attitude … etc … your new reference is the Tanker. The Tanker ONLY!
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Well in my case at the beginning was the stick, when I made the stick force sense my throttle pod has spikes and I must make it a hall sensor mode.
So aar is still a no go.sent from my Xperia Z3 compact via TapaTalk