Sharing my "Object-folder"
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It will be reserved for ppl with very strong hardware and of course, no need to ask him, or us, to add anyone of them in the stock install. It will not be possible.
My computer isn’t the best, but I still have a decent FPS despite using higher-res mods (haven’t tried this folder yet though), so if people think or know they have the capacity, why not immediately provide the best to them?
As an idea, would it be possible to provide multiple or modular versions of the 4.3x installer? That way, people could choose whether they want to try the high-res/high-poly models or not.
If you’d make it modular, a main installer with possibility to download and install separate content/mods for free, you could also keep track on what is downloaded most, and perhaps use that information to better select priorities towards the future? And as has always been the case here, you could still hold on to the argument that the mods released by users are provided and allowed, but that support can not always be guaranteed.My two cents.
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^Imo It does not make sense.The most important is a stable basic version.And later you yourself can install what you want.
You have a lot of extra mods with better graphics, and theaters with better graphics.Free choice. -
My computer isn’t the best, but I still have a decent FPS despite using higher-res mods (haven’t tried this folder yet though), so if people think or know they have the capacity, why not immediately provide the best to them?
As an idea, would it be possible to provide multiple or modular versions of the 4.3x installer? That way, people could choose whether they want to try the high-res/high-poly models or not.I said above, “do not ask for Tom’s models into stock install”. AFAIK, Tom didn’t offered anything (with all the requirements) and we have ours anyway.
And what you are proposing is already a reality. Not with 3D models, but with textures because not all configurations will allow to use hi-definition textures. Doing the same with models is too complex and time consuming to propose different models associated to different mapping, textures id, dof … etc … Hi poly models must (and will) remains additional mod with all the associated drawbacks (including retro compatibility)
… so if people think or know they have the capacity, why not immediately provide the best to them?
Providing the “best” must not be equal to “non optimized” … for us … it is simply not acceptable.
If we have to save resources for other (future) possible features, we can’t consider models without multiple lods (which is one of the greatest point of BMS) since it is possible to make excellent models (within BMS’s limitations and requirements) and save precious resources:
https://www.benchmarksims.org/forum/showthread.php?17846-Mitsubishi-F-2A-and-B/page29
https://www.benchmarksims.org/forum/showthread.php?19381-WIP-Mig-29A
https://www.benchmarksims.org/forum/showthread.php?13888-WIP-AV-8B&p=203780&viewfull=1#post203780
https://www.benchmarksims.org/forum/showthread.php?17722-WIP-Mig-27
https://www.benchmarksims.org/forum/showthread.php?16562-F-16-retrofits
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Hi ploy with no lods = additional mod. Not other possible choices.
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I seriously think that as Thread starter should have the chance to delete posts.
1. I know that the Level O Detail is very important for the workload and framerate
2. It is very easy to build the LOD2…3…4…5…levels BUT when the main model is ready and complete
3. I asked for HELP about the Skins - I asked for IDEAS and not for meanings some persons told to the world thousand times again and again
4. The models works very fine for me. The look is much better them the stock models and I`m very very happy and proud with them!
5. Use it or loose it- But dont nerve me!My intention was to show that things I have right now. Noone is be helped when I work for myself years and years without any results. I want to show new ideas, new models, some things that could be newer or fresher. I`m so bored about that old discussions "useless, too much polygones, too big textures in TE wont work bla bla bla bla bla … BORING!
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I tought that this will end in the manner. Tom I apreciatte your work. Can’t wait to install your mods and I hope you don’t retire the files.
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I seriously think that as Thread starter should have the chance to delete posts.
Hey man … This is a forum! If you don’t want ppl to discuss inside the thread, use the blog function of the forum!
https://www.benchmarksims.org/forum/blog.php
Nobody has disgraced your models or said bad things against you or your work … so quite down.
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My computer isn’t the best, but I still have a decent FPS despite using higher-res mods (haven’t tried this folder yet though), so if people think or know they have the capacity, why not immediately provide the best to them?
As an idea, would it be possible to provide multiple or modular versions of the 4.3x installer? That way, people could choose whether they want to try the high-res/high-poly models or not.
If you’d make it modular, a main installer with possibility to download and install separate content/mods for free, you could also keep track on what is downloaded most, and perhaps use that information to better select priorities towards the future? And as has always been the case here, you could still hold on to the argument that the mods released by users are provided and allowed, but that support can not always be guaranteed.My two cents.
As I know the database can be MP critical. So as long as other do not use any different LOD but you are the game can be very unstable…
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2. It is very easy to build the LOD2…3…4…5…levels BUT when the main model is ready and complete
As long as LOD1 has higher polycount than 30-40k it is pointless to work on lower res LODs because the base is not suitable.
3. I asked for HELP about the Skins - I asked for IDEAS and not for meanings some persons told to the world thousand times again and again
The request is logical in case the uppuer requirement have been fulfilled. Do you need help to create such a skinmap where all wings and stabilizers have independent skin or just creating a better skin?
4. The models works very fine for me. The look is much better them the stock models and I`m very very happy and proud with them!
Many times I say that one sample in very restricted single case is not good to a decent statistics to judge what is good or not…
5. Use it or loose it- But dont nerve me!
We just try to prevent to waste your time because if you continue build your models this way 99,99% of community never will use them. Mostly because their HW simply cannot handle them and the rest of users are not able to export and import them and even they can you models cause MP critical state because of different DB in MP…
My intention was to show that things I have right now.
Roger. Then ther feeback was the same as 1+ year ago. Mostly they are too high poly, skinmap is not suitable, etc.
Noone is be helped when I work for myself years and years without any results.
Even 1+ year ago I recommended to reduce polycount and for creating a good skinmap I could give contact for LESCO and VO101Tom…
I want to show new ideas, new models, some things that could be newer or fresher. I`m so bored about that old discussions "useless, too much polygones, too big textures in TE wont work bla bla bla bla bla … BORING!
This is the “idea”. Reduce the polycount. As long as you do not this we cannot speak anything. You can post wonderful 3DS previews which never find way into core or any DB. Ships can live with such a high polycount becase you rarely see more than one so close if you use LOD2/3/4 older lowres LOD… (Transition is very rough.) So maybe it is boring for you but the modeling organization thread is exsiting since years and countless time have been said what is accepatble and good for BMS4… If the reality is boring for you…
All of our critcs were constructive, Dee-Jay posted what can be done with 1/3th or less polycount…
You still did not post the list of all models which were replaced in DB.
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Tom I have only one question… why on Earth did u spend time on tiles when u r so way much talented on 3d?
About the high poly and the high textures… In case Tom is sharing his source files so to be integrated in BMS stock install I believe there could be found (In case he doesn’t want or have the time) someone to reduce the poly’s and the texture sizes…
Sure it would be perfect if Tom would do this but on the other hand it would be a great waste to loose those masterpieces…
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In case Tom is sharing his source files so to be integrated in BMS stock install I believe there could be found (In case he doesn’t want or have the time) someone to reduce the poly’s and the texture sizes…
Even if is was the case (which I doubt) … AFAIK (told by AMRAAM who is also 3D artist) reworking some existing models are certainly more time consuming than starting them from scratch. To build lods also (model must be thinked from the early state of dev to be able to use same texture/mapping etc …)
… yep … is it a more serious and heavier work to create “low” poly than hi-poly models (which is not as difficult and “just” require time. Without poly limitaions or optimisation constrains => easy life) …Optimization cost a lots of efforts, time and compromises. (this is why we are not hiring any kind of 3D artists).
Maybe in 10 years we will have computers able to manage very Hi Poly models (a/c anbd cities, buldings etc …), more shaders, longer contrails, maybe one day FLIR+TGP+NVGs at the same time, new terrain, lights effects … maybe autogen, new terrain mesh … etc … (all what we are dreaming about) in camaping at Kunsan where 20 a/c on taxiways are waiting the depatrure clearance…
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As I said:
To build lower LOD stages isnt a problem. That is very easy. But at first the mainmodel have to be nearly finished. Otherwise you have to take corrections up to 10 times again. Thats unpracticall.I build 3ds objects since 15 years. So I think that I have some little experience. The number of polygones isnt a problem for modern PC
s. In fact every normal PC can handle an Object with over a million polygones without problems. The limit is still the graphic card, the RAM and the FSB. BMS uses the dds formats- thats very good. So we have a lot of mipmaps with allows to show very big textures without any Problems in Game. BUT the FSB and the RAM set the limit of the workload. You ca all all models I
ve build without any problems. When you have 70 FPS- Congrats. When anybody tod that he cant life with less them 50 FPS because he lost 10% then I really cant understand this.
Im simply unable to explain it all in English and I wont battle against anyone who
s on the right way.I have this battle since years in different froums. Everytime someone told me that I used to much textures, to heavy polygones and two years later the developer present models which are three times heavier. Nowadays I see my models in so many different projects and Sim
s that I can
t be so wrong.https://www.digitalcombatsimulator.com/de/files/338654/
https://www.digitalcombatsimulator.com/de/files/602196/
http://fivesixeight.livejournal.com/2339.html
Overall: Yes- I will do building polygon reduced LOD`s soon.
Cheers
Tom -
Everytime someone told me that I used to much textures, to heavy polygones and two years later the developer present models which are three times heavier.
But this does not mean that they were right. The DCS is a perfect example the unnecessary high poly models with shit LOD handling… Two years ago I tested DCS. Were a group of units 20-30 km to east. I turned my head to west FPS was normal, I turned my head to east FPS dropped from 60 to 30-40. I had to laugh… And this is a payware stuff…
Pls. do the lower LODs for F-15 -any of them - and I will experiment the LOD distances. Do they have such a skin where wings do not use the same textures? I did not have time to check it.
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@Tom:
As I said:
To build lower LOD stages isnt a problem. That is very easy. But at first the mainmodel have to be nearly finished. Otherwise you have to take corrections up to 10 times again. Thats unpracticall.I build 3ds objects since 15 years. So I think that I have some little experience. The number of polygones isnt a problem for modern PC
s. In fact every normal PC can handle an Object with over a million polygones without problems. The limit is still the graphic card, the RAM and the FSB. BMS uses the dds formats- thats very good. So we have a lot of mipmaps with allows to show very big textures without any Problems in Game. BUT the FSB and the RAM set the limit of the workload. You ca all all models I
ve build without any problems. When you have 70 FPS- Congrats. When anybody tod that he cant life with less them 50 FPS because he lost 10% then I really cant understand this.
Im simply unable to explain it all in English and I wont battle against anyone who
s on the right way.I have this battle since years in different froums. Everytime someone told me that I used to much textures, to heavy polygones and two years later the developer present models which are three times heavier. Nowadays I see my models in so many different projects and Sim
s that I can
t be so wrong.https://www.digitalcombatsimulator.com/de/files/338654/
https://www.digitalcombatsimulator.com/de/files/602196/
http://fivesixeight.livejournal.com/2339.html
Overall: Yes- I will do building polygon reduced LOD`s soon.
Cheers
TomFalcon isn’t like any other sim because it has a dynamic campaign and when you are near the FLOT you may have at once ~100-150 ACs in the bubble, if you don’t have lower LODs then the meaning is your 100K poly models are rendered with 100K polys up to 50NM which is the size of the bubble. That will bring any PC to its knees.
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Okay- Thats a dial!
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Tom, I like a lot the emil model. PM inbound.
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Falcon isn’t like any other sim because it has a dynamic campaign and when you are near the FLOT you may have at once ~100-150 ACs in the bubble, if you don’t have lower LODs then the meaning is your 100K poly models are rendered with 100K polys up to 50NM which is the size of the bubble. That will bring any PC to its knees.
… not forgetting that the core code is 16 years old.
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It’s HardCore… :rofl:
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This is a WIP list of vehicles in HiRes found in Tomcatz folder.
1st column: BMS Database name
2nd column: Poly count- : models which I found more detailed than the ones I had (and I was based in a Rthorflech 2.1 with some additions)
A-10 14k *
A-50 30K
Ah-64A 26K
Ah-64D 26K
AK-47 22K
AK-74 23K
Ammo Ship 35K
An/MPQ-46 5K
An/MSQ-104 28K
B-1B 24K
C-130H 9K
C-17 17K
C-5 33K
Carrier 57K
CG-x 13K
CH-533 16K
CVN 57K
DDx-13K
E-3 5K
EF-2000 25K *
F/A-18A 22K *
F/A-18C 22K *
F-15A 79K *
F-15C 79K *
F-15E-220 100K *
F-4 PIK 2000 7K *
F-4 DSK 27K *
F-4E 27K *
F-4ESK 27K *
F-4F 27K *
F-4N 27K *
FAG-lST 35K *
FFG-7 Perry 35K *
Frunze 35K *
HMMV-S 22K
IL-76M 30K
IL-78 30K
KC-10 52K *
M-2000-5 21K *
M-2000-N 30K
Mi-24 18K
Mi-26 10K
Mi-8 15K
Mig-23ML 11K *
Mig-27 11K *
Mig-29A 41K
Mig-29G 41K
Mig-29S 41K
Mig-31 20K
Missile Crusr 26K
Sovremenny 35K
Su-24M 22K *
Su-25 12K *
Su-27 19K
Su-30M 29K *
Su-30MKK 28K *
Su-32 25K *
Su-33 19K *
Su-35 19K
Su-37 19K
UH-60L 17KNote 1: All manpads, and infantry units have new LOD, similar to AK47 in the list above
Note 2: All destroyers share the Sovremenny very detailed model
Note 3: F16’s have a model made by Tomcatz, but he himself recommends using Janhas one. But, if for any reason you dont want to use Janhas, Tomcatz models are very detailed, and with eye candy like ladder etc (as seen in screenshot thread pictures by the author). Please check https://www.benchmarksims.org/forum/showthread.php?18870-All-your-screenshots!&p=284618&viewfull=1#post284618 and https://www.benchmarksims.org/forum/showthread.php?18870-All-your-screenshots!&p=283117&viewfull=1#post283117 and https://www.benchmarksims.org/forum/showthread.php?18870-All-your-screenshots!&p=283688&viewfull=1#post283688
Note 4: Tomcatz KC-10 model has correct TACAN feature (range and bearing) -
I will be including some of these models in the custom modded folder of course!! I will attempt to balance the high poly stuff (as the folder will need to be FULLY compatible with MP and someone who is not using the folder). Mostly replace placing models that REALLY need it. Great work Tom!! I’m sure you will be able to find a happy medium in the future for BMS!! Keep up the good work!!
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Thank you guys- Thank you very much.
Arty
It’s HardCore… :D:D:D