Europe Theater Discussion
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Just for the record, how big would be this Eruope theater? Are we speaking about the same size as was the PMC Europe?
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I do not understand this part. Even the map of Korea is different from Europe if you wish to model well a NATO vs WPact conflict the current DB is simply not suitable.
Molni,
What I am saying is that you are able to be “unrealistic” when you want to, as demonstrated by your Eurowar campaign in your 80’s mod. I don’t mean to take anything away from your work on your 80’s mod because I think it’s fantastic. But clearly even you can suspend belief when required.You guys keep focusing on the shortcomings to making a Europe theater and I keep saying just do the best with what you have! I certainly appreciate attention to detail. On the other hand, a lot of the stuff you all get hung up on will be completely missed by the majority of your audience (in my opinion).
We’re playing a computer game. Fundamentally, everything in it is a compromise of realism. Stop dwelling on every tiny shortcoming and think bigger picture here.
Just my opinion, of course.
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What I am saying is that you are able to be “unrealistic” when you want to, as demonstrated by your Eurowar campaign in your 80’s mod.
Of course the battalion system forces you to make big compromises in battalion roster creation but you can make far better battalion rosters are in stock DB. They are more than weak…
The main point is create functional battalion with specific role and model the RL AD/combat unit ratio and capability to self defence capability against air and helos. The current DB is simply not doing this…
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central Europe theater would be great
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Pretty sure it won’t happen.
So far there has been “overwhelming interest” in helping us, which will be the reason we’ll close it down in ~2 weeks (unless something different happens in this time of course). -
“overwhelming interest”
If nobody have the neccesary skills… The only thing where I could help imporving the DB and nothing else. Only problem this is one of the last step to creating a good theater…
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how can i help for creating this theather. what is to do?
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how can i help for creating this theather. what is to do?
Contact (pm) “lazystone” ;).
Nikos. -
how can i help for creating this theather. what is to do?
Contact (pm) “lazystone” ;).
Nikos.Sadly just one good lad who is willing to help in 3D modelling simple things isn’t enough to keep this project alive.
Magic, please read post #82 of this thread.
Thank’s for your interrest anyway.Cheers,
LS -
If nobody have the neccesary skills… The only thing where I could help imporving the DB and nothing else. Only problem this is one of the last step to creating a good theater…
I can’t believe there are no guys around who could model very simple things in 3DSMAX and create a texture for it with photoshop.
The real problem is that nobody is willing to spend their time on this longtime project.
However, we know we could count on you for DB work.
Cheers,
LS -
In my archives, the first time we talked about europe was 2003 - 11 years ago
i made maps for the europe terrain back thenit’s been 11 years with no significant project and with the experience i have today i know that such a large theater will take at least 10 years to be up to par with Korea
the lack of progress makes me think that it’s better to concentrate on viable projects -
First of all what is need for Euroope theater? Because it has not been explained how advanced is the project?
Elavation map?
Is there functional road maps?
Is the position and types objectives are final?
So are you saying that Europe cannot be finished because it requires new building for build up new objectives? Because if you wish to create new airbases it means DB edit because objects are defined in DB as I know.
What about airbase radio comms? Are all airbases have updated radio with correct TACAN/ILS channels and names?
Or you need model for new vehicles? (IMHO tons of vehicles are missing from DB if you can build a more authentic campaign.)
etc.I have tried years ago XSI and 3D Max but I simply did not understand their logic. Even doing the most basic things were far too complicated to me…
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@Red:
In my archives, the first time we talked about europe was 2003 - 11 years ago
i made maps for the europe terrain back thenI know you did maps for PMC EU theater, but for known reasons we don’t talk about PMC here.
@Red:
it’s been 11 years with no significant project and with the experience i have today i know that such a large theater will take at least 10 years to be up to par with Korea
the lack of progress makes me think that it’s better to concentrate on viable projectsI also know such a theater takes time, that’s why I’m talking about a longtime project.
I’ve joined ETG in Aug.2007 and if there would have been 5-10 3D modellers who would have put some efforts into that project,
then we would already be halfway there I think.In all those years we have been in hope that things will change.
… you can read post #82 to see what really happend.Sadly actually RL things has changed for me personally, so I dunno atm. how much or on which projects I’ll work in future.
https://www.benchmarksims.org/forum/showthread.php?19905-I-died-%28twice%29-WTFCheers,
LS -
I have worked on the older balkan theater back in the SP days with some tiling, but I unfortunately do not have any skills in the 3D modeling area.
Besides of creating technical stuff in some kind of CAD system.
I suck with all the graphical stuff.What about releasing a “pre-alpha” on the 128x128 base with those objectives that are there? So everyone could see for himself? I’d really like to see how this looks like with the balkan terrain tiles and the objectives that are there right now.
Any theater without a working campaign will still be a great place to fly TE’s. Getting a working campaign is a lot of work too. -
First of all what is need for Euroope theater? Because it has not been explained how advanced is the project?
Elavation map?
Is there functional road maps?
Is the position and types objectives are final?
So are you saying that Europe cannot be finished because it requires new building for build up new objectives? Because if you wish to create new airbases it means DB edit because objects are defined in DB as I know.
What about airbase radio comms? Are all airbases have updated radio with correct TACAN/ILS channels and names?
Or you need model for new vehicles? (IMHO tons of vehicles are missing from DB if you can build a more authentic campaign.)
etc.I have tried years ago XSI and 3D Max but I simply did not understand their logic. Even doing the most basic things were far too complicated to me…
One goal of ETG was to create unique AB buildings, at least the towers and it’s surrounding buildings for most of the AB’s,
because they are the most time intensive things to do, IMHO.“Lukas” has already a Europe WIP terrain which he is willing to share for interrested developers,
including road-river structure, etc. but buildings from standard korea DB AFAIK.
I also think that Lukas has already done some work on comms/tacan, etc.
Additionally our friend Nikos has already offered his help on that topic.Once the 3D buildings are done, it should be not that hard and time intensive to include them into a EU related DB.
… next would be AC’s and vehicles, etc.Sure, it’s more easy to build another PMC like theater, but that wasn’t our goal. (read first post)
About 3D modelling, … 3D modelling a simple box is neither hard to do, nor time intensive,
but skinning it nicely is time intensive.
You would be surprised what results someone can get out of such a nicely skinned box.
… and like I’ve said in post #82, with a few mouseclicks more someone can even model a nice looking house, etc.Cheers,
LS -
What about releasing a “pre-alpha” on the 128x128 base with those objectives that are there? So everyone could see for himself? I’d really like to see how this looks like with the balkan terrain tiles and the objectives that are there right now.
Any theater without a working campaign will still be a great place to fly TE’s. Getting a working campaign is a lot of work too.Releasing a “pre-alpha” would make no sense at all, beside to satisfy one or another one’s curiosity.
Like I’ve said, we have not included any new objectives into the alpha terrain I’ve created myself, yet.
(they are just DEM2Terrain/Tacedit results with standard korea DB atm.)I could show you some 3DSMAX renderings of the stuff we already did or a insim screenshot
of the alpha terrain, which makes no sense at all, beside to satisfy one or another one’s curiosity,… again.Cheers,
LS -
IMO a more open situation would be better.
Like the organization list here in BMS…
We want those:
1.
2.
3.
4.
.
.
.
.
.
.
100.000.so ppl can take a look decide what to work on and declare it.
There should be a specific time wanted to show some progress or else it will be declared as free for another one to make.
Also areas of interest. That way thousands of members here could chime in and share their photos and info.
I believe this would be a nice kickstart… sure most ppl will just share photos or data and few will start working on 3d, but I believe they will be more then now, or the try will be better then nothing.
Besides AB buildings the actual Airbases (runway taxiway) must be build… right? Are those ready? or WIP?
If not… I already made some vids for my squad dev team how to build an airbase in 3ds and how to uv map and texture… I could share those… with a bit of translation in english first…
Nothing fancy I’m learning and recording at the same time… but till now the outcome is ok… Not so pro as Amraam’s airbase with just 7 textures and superb detail at 2048x2048 but 12 textures at 4096x4096 and good detail.Finally in Corel Draw u can sketch up an airbase rwy twy and park areas in high detail and very very fast instead of 3ds max…
U just need a good high res photo (photo merge) from Google earth pro and u r ready to sketch…Maybe someone from the Europe theater should create those photo merges and post a list which are ready to be sketched. I can also post a video on how to sketch it in CorelDraw and export it for 3ds max.
Then uv maping which is ridiculous cause it’s just flat areas and finally texturing it.
Till (and) uv mapping even a guy with totally no previous experience can do it. Texturing though will require some skills.
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I know you did maps for PMC EU theater, but for known reasons we don’t talk about PMC here.
it’s not a taboo subject - but it wasn’t for PMC alone. on second instances it was for other groups, including BMS at some point
as far as i’m concerned, i’ll be happy with the mediteranean part of europe.
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I would be more happy is forces - resources would focus on the mediteranean part of europe as this part is more close to be released then europe…
Both EMF and Europe are vast ones. Let’s finish - make more things for EMF first and then go for europe and instead of 2 unifinished theaters have only one.After EMF is out (let’s hope soon) then Aegean, e-HAF, Balkans and Israel can co-work with EMF (under their supervision) and try to finish it. If not co-work share resources like 3d objects tiles etc…
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Releasing a “pre-alpha” would make no sense at all, beside to satisfy one or another one’s curiosity.
Like I’ve said, we have not included any new objectives into the alpha terrain I’ve created myself, yet.
(they are just DEM2Terrain/Tacedit results with standard korea DB atm.)I could show you some 3DSMAX renderings of the stuff we already did or a insim screenshot
of the alpha terrain, which makes no sense at all, beside to satisfy one or another one’s curiosity,… again. http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f82/lazystone/Smileys/shrug.gifCheers, http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f82/lazystone/Smileys/hat_3.gif
LSSo basically it is roughly the same state as the PMC theater… I still have some kind of european theater on my hdd which should represent that state (roughly). Maybe I even have the same or similar objective file…
I like Arty’s idea of throwing in what is there and then see who can contribute anything.