Crosswind Landings / "Impossible Landing" TE / Crosswind landing advice
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Use the Drift CO option for this kind of problem and evaluate your horizontal trajectory otherwise, by getting your eyes out of the HUD
no thank you. Drift CO is use for flying in high winds at high altitude.
Of course Cruz is right caper! And this is the reason/purpose of the drift C/O.
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Moreover, sometimes you cannot choose where you land : fuel, too much traffic on other runways, etc.
It is actualy quite simple. There is some xwind limitations. If you are above, you have to divert on a suitable airfield.
That’s all.
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… people start to comment about landing faster so as to be able to see the FPM in the HUD still.
Because most ppl has no pilot expericance exept the video game and has no idea about what landing a jet is and how is has to be done.
The day they will … They will understand how it cost to loose 10kts of overspeed with a jet on a NATO runway (2400m*45m) not saying what it cost in temrs of kicks in the butt by the military instructor if you don’t fly the given aoa in final approche.
“Most” ppl here has absoluetly no idea about, precision, respect of procedures and professionalism, and this is 100% normal and understandable since it is a video game… But they usualy do not like when some other ppl are telling them that they a saying craps if we extend the discussion beyond the simple video game.
That is the main point here… Several years of BMS practising is more valuable than several hours of RL jet fying, try to convince them of the oposite. Hard works.Landing WITHOUT the HUD!!! … OMG … some ppl does even not really knows how to do WITH the HUD (proof in previous post) … Don’t ask them for “impossible callenge.”
Honestly… This thread “sucks”. Too many BS in there.
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That is the main point here… Several years of bad BMS practising is more valuable than several hours of RL jet fying, try to convince them of the oposite. Hard works.
Fixed it for you
I never flew a real jet, and yet, I found most RL procedures quite appropriate in BMS anyway.
But in BMS, if you dont stop the jet by the end of the runway, all you have to do is leave the sim :mrgreen:
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Cruz … You have learned more about RL in few month of BMS practising than many other in serveral years of BMS, FSX and more. and I am happy and satisfied about that. this is the “raison d’être” of BMS.
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Cruz … You have learned more about RL in few month of BMS practising than many other in serveral years of BMS, FSX and more. and I am happy and satisfied about that. this is the “raison d’être” of BMS.
this happened to me as well. its amazing what you learn by doing and reading, and doing again and reading some more.
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Going faster to reduce WCA is facepalm territory. For 150 KTS forward speed and 15 KTS lateral speed it’s about 3.8 deg WCA. For 160 KTS you reduce your WCA to 3.6 deg. Such a great benefit for increasing your landing energy by 13.8% and your lateral momentum is still 15 KTS worth in both cases. It’s a cute idea but fails the test of reality.
I know drift C/O NORM is on landing checklist. I think there is no rule against using C/O while landing but it is dangerous to think drift is set NORM when it is still C/O. If you know to disregard it it’s no problem for most pilots (HUD off too if you’re any good at flying). It’s just not recommended to land with C/O because thinking a FPM is truth when it is set to lie mode.
DeeJay is right about attitude. With real IP you try funny “my own person technique” and see what you get. BMS community is not your daddy but if you want respect it is from how you act. There are very few social points in being a unique snowflake.
IMO, it’s impossible to achieve “no pilot roll input” while de-crabbing cuz there’s a phenomenon called Roll-Yaw Coupling and the F-16 has a relatively big Cl (Rolling momentum) produced by the rudder compared to the F-18, which means continuous roll input is expected to counter the rudder induced roll, dispite the fact that FLCS is compensating it as well.
Thanks for that answer. I know shoving the rudder causes roll (and if FLCS counters it it’s too weak to matter in this case). I heard the case of the European F-16 not touching down in full level crab so I’m trying to figure out how. Maybe they have an edited OFP that cuts out ARI gently?
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Going faster to reduce WCA is facepalm territory. For 150 KTS forward speed and 15 KTS lateral speed it’s about 3.8 deg WCA. For 160 KTS you reduce your WCA to 3.6 deg. Such a great benefit for increasing your landing energy by 13.8% and your lateral momentum is still 15 KTS worth in both cases. It’s a cute idea but fails the test of reality.
I know drift C/O NORM is on landing checklist. I think there is no rule against using C/O while landing but it is dangerous to think drift is set NORM when it is still C/O. If you know to disregard it it’s no problem for most pilots (HUD off too if you’re any good at flying). It’s just not recommended to land with C/O because thinking a FPM is truth when it is set to lie mode.
DeeJay is right about attitude. With real IP you try funny “my own person technique” and see what you get. BMS community is not your daddy but if you want respect it is from how you act. There are very few social points in being a unique snowflake.
I’m getting different numbers and I use different numbers.
Energy is not a problem until it correctly converted into heat.
The impact of a facepalm can vary depending on it angle it is applied.There no reason to use drift co on touchdown if you are in crosswind limits. Unless there is some other reason you want to degrade your instruments.
DJ needs to do what ever his instructors command.
I don’t think you have to use all acronyms. I’m a little tire up looking them up and nobody is going make you their daddy for using them.I’m an out of work Comanche helicopter weapon system designer who enjoy the technical side of the f-16. I do try to be respectful be helpful in some of the gray areas and don’t use a bunch of acronyms to try to make ppl feel stupid. In the process I’ve learn a few thing (for fun).
Why did this pilot land at 165-170kts, less than AoA 11* and 2.5* glideslope….I can make a list.
To some ppl in this thread…hmmm…they must think he’s a snowflake. -
I do try to be respectful be helpful in some of the gray areas and don’t use a bunch of acronyms to try to make ppl feel stupid.
+1
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Why did this pilot land at 165-170kts, less than AoA 11* and 2.5* glideslope….I can make a list.
To some ppl in this thread…hmmm…they must think he’s a snowflake.Did you also notice that his jet was almost aligned with the runway before he flared? I see small banking and possible rudder before he gets to the threshold. Hmmm. When he finally touches down, there is little need to de-crab. Looks about right to me.
P.S. I do not think you are a snowflake. I do not think others here believe you are a snowflake. Now, a cornflake, well that’s a different story. :lol:
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Did you also notice that his jet was almost aligned with the runway before he flared? I see small banking and possible rudder before he gets to the threshold. Hmmm. When he finally touches down, there is little need to de-crab. Looks about right to me.
P.S. I do not think you are a snowflake. I do not think others here believe you are a snowflake. Now, a cornflake, well that’s a different story. :lol:
wind is much less strong in the vicinity of ground……
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Why did this pilot land at 165-170kts, less than AoA 11* and 2.5* glideslope….I can make a list.
This is what resonates with me the most.
In Falcon (mainly BMS), I have been in so many different landing scenarios that required different stick/throttle applications that I would find it hard to pin a number. Wind (especially that push/pull effect on the nose just before touchdown), weather, flameout (shoulda’ brought the wingbags!) battle damage (have landed on several occasions with no HUD)…what about corrective action for overspeed or underspeed on approach? I currently do not own rudder pedals and use the keyboard for rudder input after touchdown, so I have been immune to the temptations of trying to slip/kick one in.
Sometimes terrain can have an effect. At least for me. I have taken a few flights lately in the Sinai (SP) theater, operating out of El Gora. Runway 26 has a ridge in front of it and I have a hard time on approach keeping the glideslope due to the height of the ridge and the distance from the ridgeline and the runway threshold. I haven’t crashed yet, but I had a couple of very bouncy landings so far.
But a lot of it for me (and I’m not a pilot!) in BMS just seems to go by feel sometimes. And I also believe it is true (as I have read, anyway) that some RL pilots use different landing methods than others in the same AC.
For instance, the Drift C/O switch…One pilot may be able to use it and just reference his pitch angle on the HUD while maintaining a good sight picture of runway alignment outside of the HUD, while another may get fixated on the HUD and need to keep it in Normal mode and maybe rely more on the pitch arrows for AOA.
I think the hardest part, because it is a sim and not RL is convincing yourself sometimes, that you need to abort and call it a missed approach.
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DJ needs to do what ever his instructors command…
There is the letter, and the spirit of the letter!
From the beginning you seems to not understand the spirit of the letter.Yes, instructor commends to do some things, but explanations comes after. And one day, you try your own way, and most of the time, you realise that Chappy was right mate.
Maybe simply because it is an error from the beginning to think that you are smarter than another guys how has about ten times more flight hours than you. So my point is: you will not live long enough to do all the mistake yourself, so take benefits of other ppl’s mistakes to grow faster and live longer.But once agin, we are talking about a video game here where landing upside-down is possible by checking the invincible option ON. So yes, everything is allowed.
But a lot of it for me (and I’m not a pilot!) in BMS just seems to go by feel sometimes. And I also believe it is true (as I have read, anyway) that some RL pilots use different landing methods than others in the same AC.
This is true.
But all those pilots knows the bible and had roughly the same instruction. So they know where they are and how much they are deviating from the “pure letter”. They also knows when they can and when they shouldn’t deviate. Finally, theknow how to revert to basics quite quickly when things are going wrong…
This is something I can’t really talk with you as my English isn’t good enough, and I also want to enjoy my holidays under the sun of the Indian Ocean.
Happy landings guys.
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Real Pilots don´t land :mrgreen:
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I’m getting different numbers and I use different numbers.
Energy is not a problem until it correctly converted into heat.
The impact of a facepalm can vary depending on it angle it is applied.I don’t understand. Landing energy and momentum matters for brake energy and landing roll length. A pilot cares what is going to happen 30 sec into the future too!
There no reason to use drift co on touchdown if you are in crosswind limits. Unless there is some other reason you want to degrade your instruments.
You can see flight path angle comparing FPM against pitch ladder in the center of the HUD if it might go off the side due to large xwind. Lateral position is wrong but if it’s known then not too much a problem. I don’t land with C/O but I can understand its use.
I don’t think you have to use all acronyms. I’m a little tire up looking them up and nobody is going make you their daddy for using them.
I don’t use terms to alienate. It is just my normal vocabulary. If it is esoteric to follow along I’m sorry; it’s not on purpose.
Why did this pilot land at 165-170kts, less than AoA 11* and 2.5* glideslope….I can make a list.
It looks a little gusty and I see almost exactly 11 AoA and 2.5 right at threshold for approach. It’s a little too much speed but only a little due to bumpy air. It would be nice to touchdown at 13 AoA but rough air can overshoot 13 AoA. It was a little hot on the flare and the pilot would probably say so too. An imperfect landing without pilot comment is different than a bad landing and attitude “so what I do what I want” comment.
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I don’t think you have to use all acronyms. I’m a little tire up looking them up and nobody is going make you their daddy for using them.
I’m an out of work Comanche helicopter weapon system designer who enjoy the technical side of the f-16. I do try to be respectful be helpful in some of the gray areas and don’t use a bunch of acronyms to try to make ppl feel stupid. In the process I’ve learn a few thing (for fun).
So now on a flight simulation forum with the name being that of a literal benchmark for realism, you are trying to belittle someone for using MLAs?
Check six mate, and while youre at it, reread your forum rules.
Bloody hell.
Pro tip, some of us are not going to start typing out 10 times as much so as to save you from having to look up commonly used initialisms.
The whole point of an abbreviation is to save time - if you think the purpose of brevity is to make you personally feel stupid, then you have another think coming.
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The whole point of an abbreviation is to save time - if you think the purpose of brevity is to make you personally feel stupid, then you have another think coming.
Calm down, man…
Acronyms are useful indeed, but you have to admit these can be deceiving or get in the way of proper undertanding. Remember GCSC ?
There no reason to use drift co on touchdown if you are in crosswind limits. Unless there is some other reason you want to degrade your instruments.
DJ needs to do what ever his instructors command.
I don’t think you have to use all acronyms. I’m a little tire up looking them up and nobody is going make you their daddy for using them.I’m an out of work Comanche helicopter weapon system designer who enjoy the technical side of the f-16. I do try to be respectful be helpful in some of the gray areas and don’t use a bunch of acronyms to try to make ppl feel stupid. In the process I’ve learn a few thing (for fun).
Nobody is trying to make you feel stupid. All I (and DJ, and Blu3wolf) am trying to do is point you the F-16 RL procedures and why they are applied. Sometimes, what you “feel” you have to do in the sim is not the best way, neither in the sim itself than IRL.
What is always true, though, is that :
- being at the proper approach speed is more important than seeing your FPM.
FYI, in an F-16, the HUD is not a “primary flight instruments”, ie : if its not available, you are supposed to know how to fly and land anyway. Im not saying its not useful though.
-sometimes the Drift CO is useful when you land, because the FPM is away from the HUD permanently or jumping too much to be reliable in the horizontal plane. Better a degraded FPM than no FPM at all.
About the video you posted :
We dont really know what did this pilot tried to do and he is not here to comment either.
As Blu3wolf said, he was probably a bit high in AOA to avoid being “pushed” at more than 13°, both for stall and for tail scraping reasons. But he most certainly didnt do it just to see his FPM.DJ and all sudent pilots do as their instructors said, because what their instructors said is the product of test flights and experience. So I feel that what he has to say is probably a bit more valuable than what I can “guess” from my experience in BMS. This is not “do as I say”, its “you should do as I say because of this and this reasons”.
Very honestly, I am a bit tired of this eternal Crosswind topic. So to any people reading this, see advices in the pages before, and land as you see fit.
- being at the proper approach speed is more important than seeing your FPM.
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FYI, in an F-16, the HUD is not a “primary flight instruments”
… I think it is on most of latest F-16 varients. (Not on M2000 for sure)
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Yes the HUD is FAA certified.
BTW there are specific exercises in rl for landing with the HUD off.