Is there any way you can see if you had a tail strike?
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When I land at an angle that is around 15 degrees, it sometimes looks like the rear end of the plane might have hit the ground very slightly but there is no way to figure out if it really did or not since the graphic textures are not 100% precise and it is too close to determine if it hit the ground just by looking at replay videos and I don’t think BMS has a fiture that shows very small or minor damages on planes such as very minor tail strikes. It seems like it either doesn’t show anything or it just explode like crazy. So I wonder if the plane’s tail has never touched the ground as long as the plane doesn’t explode or it says crash or it just doesn’t show very minor contacts with ground or other objects when it actually did happen.
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If the plane has a tail strike, its very noticeable in BMS. Engine and electrical failures follow shortly after.
It also does not model the landing gear perfectly, but to a reasonable model. Meaning the max safe angle is not quite accurate either. Still, you get more or less real handling in the 2 point aerobraking configuration, and following real procedure will result in reasonable if suboptimal braking performance.
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if you strike the tail your engine and electrical system will usually go out
usually you will get lots of warning lights like ENGINE OHEAT and the other nasty engine lights on the right eyebrow as well
tl;dr blue’s right, you’ll notice if you tailstrike
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Just keep no more than 10 degrees nose up on departure and when aerobraking and you’ll be fine.
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I guess 13-15 degree will be Ok Same to Landing. While final approach HUD will show AOA curret indicates 13-15 as proper AOA, so as long as left indexer lights green donut it will be safe. However I Prefer to try 13 and avoid 15 deg.
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In real non of these happens…
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Just keep no more than 10 degrees nose up on departure and when aerobraking and you’ll be fine.
You dont have a very effective two point aerobrake at 10 degrees. On departure, your rotate should occur at the calculated speed; if you are rotating at the correct speed there is no settled region where the jet sits on two wheels. You pull back firmly and the jet flies off the runway smoothly climbing. Do not apply aft stick pressure prior to rotate airspeed.
In the landing, you have both two point and three point aerobraking to accomplish. In the 2 point configuration, the nose should be at 13 degrees, assuming a level runway (always the case in BMS). 14.2 is the critical angle, and 12 or less is ineffective at slowing the aircraft - so there is not much room for margin of error. 13 degrees. In BMS you can safely exceed this 14.2 angle, but it is unprototypical to do so.
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What is the real damage on mild/moderate/severe tail strike? Damaged feathers, bent actuators, damage to mounts, airframe bending?
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Part-broken of the below 2 vertical structures, damaged-bend bottom-part of the airbrakes (if opened), and damaged-bend bottom engine pedals.
No elec failures, engine shutdowns, hud-blanking etc… lol
Have it on vid, and the man who flew there (outside GR as it was in an exercise) along with the replacements is a very good friend and one of the older GR Falcon community members with more than 20 years on the Vipers fleet.
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Can someone confirm at what angle the open air brakes hit the ground? I’ve always tried to aerobrake at 14, but get it wrong and it seems like it’s a tail strike straight away at 15 degrees.
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No change in BMS between brakes open and closed.
IRL, the procedure is for the brakes open to the 30 degree open position (full open, without held open, with gear down) in the 2 point aerobraking configuration, and fully open (held open) in the 3 point aerobraking configuration. Trying to hold the proper 13 degree 2 point aerobraking configuration with held open brakes should result in a tailstrike (again, in BMS there is no difference).
You can get the proper angle from the dash one.
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ROT is to not pull the gun cross above approx. 12 degrees during aerobraking. Do that, no strike. WFM, anyways.
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The WOW-less max hold angle is 43, with WOW it’s 60. It would make sense to be NLG WOW but I’m not 100% sure on that. Procedure is don’t hold the switch open on landing (or you’ll get 60 degrees if you ask for it) and to extend fully only when in the 3 point attitude. I also apply rear stick as the stabilators add drag and down force for wheel braking. Some care is needed not to raise the nose gear again.
I’ve never had a tail strike in BMS with the green doughnut lit on the indexer. Pitch can get really fussy on rollout at high pitches and low speed to the point that trying to hold 14 is absolutely asking for trouble. Aerobraking is just beginning to become worthwhile at 10° and getting better at 11 or 12. By 13 degrees you have as near as makes no difference to the full aero available. At 14 and beyond it’s all risk no reward.
I did a run to see and I didn’t have a problem until >15.0 but that was a light loading so maybe the issue can happen sooner on different aircraft weights (empty by model, and current by loading). I don’t know if BMS models this but at higher speeds the lift keeps the airplane higher over the runway. Theoretically the safest time to be at high angle is after the landing bounce at the highest speed. The smallest safe angle would be during the landing impact and at low speed where the airplane settles as lift decays.
A very crude test but I did two landings of the landing TE trying to hold various aero angles. It’s not great data. I was hoping to support the sentiment “you don’t have to point at the moon, but 9 degrees doesn’t cut it”.
0.0 27s from 110-90 TAS
9.5 10s from 110-90
11.5 8s from 110-90
13.0 7s from 110-90If I was judging someone else’s landing the primary place I would look is the indexer lights. If they can’t get a green at all, no good. If they wobble between green and yellow it’s acceptable but weak. If reds are another but minor, transient and hastily corrected that’s very dangerous. I would never complain about the specific angle if it was green the whole time.
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Yes BMS models the lifting while on ground that means AC is higher on its wheels at 13 deg than at 5
Airbrakes are not modeled in the collision model
Collision model accuracy is float accuracy so it can be set extremely accurately .
Damage model is not realistic
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You can sure HEAR it when it happens…hold no more than 12 degrees at the gun cross - works.
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ROT is to not pull the gun cross above approx. 12 degrees during aerobraking. Do that, no strike. WFM, anyways.
Your ROT is not backed up by rL procedure.
The WOW-less max hold angle is 43, with WOW it’s 60. It would make sense to be NLG WOW but I’m not 100% sure on that. Procedure is don’t hold the switch open on landing (or you’ll get 60 degrees if you ask for it) and to extend fully only when in the 3 point attitude. I also apply rear stick as the stabilators add drag and down force for wheel braking. Some care is needed not to raise the nose gear again.
Cheers for the much needed correction. I should ensure in future I do not make silly errors like that.
Ill note however that full aft stick is a feature of the correct 3 point aerobraking config and that you should be transitioning to that config at a speed low enough that raising the nose again is impossible. Ballpark it at 120 knots for the charlies, and 100 knots for the older ones.
You can sure HEAR it when it happens…hold no more than 12 degrees at the gun cross - works.
Once again, 13 degrees.
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12 is less than 13, which is another reason it works…and I also seem to recall reading somewhere that 12 is the optimum angle for putting enough weight on the gear to maximize wheel braking. Anyway…nobody is probably going to able to hold (or tell the diff…) between 12, 13, 14 degrees anyway in the absolute. I target 12-ish on rollout and that keeps me from skagging the brakes/ventrals - which I used to do on a fairly regular basis until I learned not to over-pull. Dunno what others do, but that’s what I do and it works. I also always land on-speed, so I probably land a bit slower than most folk too…Fly Navy!
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You dont wheel braking in the 2 point aerobraking config. Wheel braking begins in the 3 point config.
Most folk aside, you land on speed by landing on alpha, so you are not alone there.
Its pretty easy to see the difference between 12 amd 13 on the pitch ladder.
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I think most folk (and the book) actually recommend landing fast - FPM at the top of the bracket vise in the center; which technically isn’t “on-speed”. Personally, I don’t use the bracket - I only look at the indexer, so if I have the ball lit I’m actually slower than the book depicts. I don’t really pay attention to anything but the indexer (and needles - if I have them up) on landing. But as I touch down I’m generally on the brakes very shortly after I “feel” the wheels touch.
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Then you are doing it wrong, plain and simple. You will be more prone to brake failure from overheating, doing it that way. Not an ideal time of flight to have brake failure.
Proper technique is to approach at top of the staple, and flare - resulting in an on speed touchdown, rather than a below speed touchdown after an on speed approach. Acceptable technique is to approach on speed and throttle up in the flare before cutting the throttle, for an on speed approach and touchdown.